AMBU to think that being a vegan doesn't automatically give you the mo

[scepticalNC]

NC for this as friend knows I'm on here.
A close friend of mine is a vegan, let's call her VF. I love her and she's wonderful. But shes become very preachy about veganism and it's getting to me. It really is constant. It seems like nothing else matters - non-vegans are ruining the planet. She has said she is depressed because those around her (presumably me) don't see the damage they are doing to the planet. From what I understand, for her it's more about the environment than about animal welfare.
I have no problem with veganism- but VF drives everywhere, goes on probably on average of 4 long haul holidays per year and has a dog that she feeds meat. All of these things have an environmental impact too.
We have a car but it gets used maybe once a month- we walk, cycle or sometimes use public transport. We have maybe 1 or 2 holidays a year and very occasionally fly longhaul. We buy local and seasonal. We don't eat meat often but when we do we buy very high welfare meat. We do however eat a fair amount of seafood. We probably eat meat/seafood free meals about 50% of the week. We do consume a lot of milk a lot but we have a toddler. (She was pretty harsh when I switched DC from breast milk to cows milk at 1 year old, not to mention that fact that having DC is hugely damaging to the planet).
Our milk is from a local organic dairy, is delivered in glass bottles which are reusable. I think the milk travels less than 10 miles. Her almond milk is sold in non recyclable cartons, is made from almonds that are grown in and then flown all the way from California, where they have frequent water shortages.
I'm not sure I can agree that drinking almond milk is saving the planet here!
She will eat foods containing palm oil but not eggs. We get a lot of our eggs from my FIL who has chickens. He spends a lot of time keeping the chickens safe - I know a lot of people with chickens and they regularly get killed by foxes. They give FIL eggs and he keeps them fed and safe from the foxes - seems like a mutually beneficial relationship to me? If they were "liberated" they would be dead in hours. How is eating their eggs worse than eating palm oil which is having huge environmental impacts? (I'm not denying that lots of hens are kept in awful conditions - and I wouldn't buy their eggs). We all make our own judgements about what we think is wrong or right on these types of things - I don't believe there is an objectively right or wrong answer. But she does. Obviously there are lots of issues at play here but I feel like she thinks being vegan gives people the right to constantly criticise others. It's more complicated than that.
VF recently made some comments about someone we know who is on a very low income, and eats a load of cheap processed food (evident as she posts pics of her weekly shop and almost every meal her an her family eat on SM). VF was criticising her, saying she doesn't care about the planet etc. I pointed out that she was a single mum and on a very low income which makes things hard food wise and pointed out that she did not own a car and has never even left the country, so was doing her bit for the planet in her own way.

I would never dream of preaching to anyone about lifestyle, but it's mostly what VF talks about these days I feel like it's reached the point where I want to point out that it's not all as black and white as she believes it to be. I'm sure if I do she will see it as a personal attack on her ideology (whereas when she criticises my way of life that's fine because I'm murdering the planet).
AMBU?

I get you, dd carer is a vegan, and is so lovely and non preachy. She only speaks about it if you ask her, and her family has meat, and she often buys handles and cooks it for them, and has no issue with that, but does not eat it herself.

Vegans don't eat eggs! Saying 'I am a vegan, but I eat the eggs as they would go to waste' is ludicrous. If she eats eggs, she is not a vegan!

I have a friend who calls herself an 'out of home vegan'. She does eat eggs from her own chickens (and from mine), but if going anywhere she will eat vegan because she will only eat eggs from non-commercial home kept free range chooks.

I met someone the other day who claimed she was vegan, then went on to say I'm almost vegan as I don't drink milk (but eats products containing milk and eggs). Then I found out that she eats fish...So not even vegetarian then

I don't call myself a veggie or a vegan BUT I eat mainly organic fruit and veg \carefully raised salmon once a week and occasionally some goats' cheese.

IMO labels mean nothing; anyone who actually considers what they eat in the light of how it's produced and just doesn't shove any old rubbish down their throats is to be encouraged.

I'm wondering what proportion of the more strident remainers/ brexiteers are vegan. I'm seeing similarities in their approach...

Every vegan I have ever met is ANGRY

My parents have been vegetarian for 30 years and keep on about cruelty to animals. I ignore it. I followed a largely vegetarian diet through uni as it was cheaper but it made me very very tired. My mum and dad are hypocrites anyway, hardly anything they eat is “fresh” or home cooked, usually frozen meals and frozen or tinned veg some with a lot of palm oil in. I eat free range organic meat and organic veg from Britain, Europe at a push, which is prepared from scratch. My in-laws grow their own food in a tiny garden in Elephant and Castle, and they give us their surplus! I also eat fish seasonally because it’s cheaper than importing it from heaven knows where. I think I have the upper hand, diet wise. I use public transport and rarely fly, preferring the railway to Europe anyway. My parents have four foreign holidays a year. It’s preposterous.

I think you should take it as a personl challenge to train her out of it

Every time she says something about her superior lifestyle, point out one of the things you've mentioned - you've got so many to choose from!

VF drives everywhere, goes on probably on average of 4 long haul holidays per year and has a dog that she feeds meat.
Her almond milk is sold in non recyclable cartons, is made from almonds that are grown in and then flown all the way from California, where they have frequent water shortages.
She will eat foods containing palm oil but not eggs.

She'll soon get sick of trying to preach if every time she does, she gets a reality check

I think it’s ironic my friend who is vegan and occasionally eats her own rescue chickens eggs (because they are a waste product, she doesn’t source them, otherwise would just go in a bin) is not a ‘real vegan’. But vegans who eat nothing but processed/imported stuff are ‘good proper vegans’.
I’m sure a lot of what they eat harms animals in an indirect way more.

Surely this is a first world problem, because alot of people in other countries have very little choice about what they eat or can afford to eat. Some people live miles away from 'civilization' and eat what they collect from their local area. Secondly, I don't understand the 'points' people award to themselves for doing x or y eg a point for growing own vegetables, but minus points for flying on holiday. We are lucky that we have choices, alot of people have zero choice. Anyone who says they are better, just laugh

Also some countries grow huge fields of wheat, root vegetables. Why are other countries not allowed to grow fields of palm oil ? I understand that native forest has been replaced by crops, but all countries grow crops for food/profit

Small Boat - because you can't grow fields of palm oil. You get palm oil from deforestation, hence the problem many have with it.
If you could simply plant a crop which you could then reap and use to produce palm oil, there would be no issues.

We are very lucky that we have choices, but many of our choices don't just impact us or our immediate neighbours, but people in poverty across the globe as well.

The Guardian ran a series called Modern Tribes. One was The Smug Vegan:

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/nov/14/vegan-warrior-modern-tribe-bacon-cancer-link

"The female cow isn't texting her friend Vicky to ask if she thinks it's a bad idea to sleep with Gary the cow on the first date, or hold out a big longer."

Do you mean Gary the bull or is Gary a female who identifies as male?

I'm a veggie but don't make a performance out of it. I have my reasons, and if anyone asks me what they are, I'll tell them. But I just get on with it. None of my family and friends are veggie, and I'll cook meat for them. I did have one friend who wouldn't leave it and wanted to question my choice and insisted that I could eat "kind" meat and all the rest of it. It got very tedious in the end. It's like a lot of things though, other people preaching what you should and shouldn't do. Everyone has a choice. That is mine.

There’s always one like that @akitas2 the one who won’t leave it alone. I have one who thinks it’s cruel that I don’t cook meat for my toddler... I’ve never cooked it as never eaten it. I doubt anyone would want meat I’d cooked to be honest!

OP- you need to tell her what you have told us

YANBU
BUT.... I hate the argument of 'eats vegan but drives everywhere' as though it has to be all or nothing. We all need to do our bit for the environment she has chosen to be vegan, you choose to cut your carbon footprint in other ways.

Also - hate the black and white labels with these choices. Quite simply, we would all be healthier and it would be better for the planet if we all ate less meat and more veg. Whether it's one meat free day a week or only eating meat at weekends or only when you eat out or whatever. It all helps, surely!
I just think it's a shame when people think they couldn't go veggie as they'd miss their Saturday bacon sarnie. Well... still have your sarnie but cut out other meat then!

Eating vegan is not only about animals, it has become a fashion, fad, lifestyle choice for health, weightloss. I don't eat animals and I hate cruelty, however vegans that get on with their lives quietly are fine by me, the ones that keep banging on about it are not.

My response is that they are not making a good contribution to the planet or animal life all the time they eat vegan food that contains palm oil or soya. Admittedly it is difficult to avoid these days but if they really want to make a difference they should think about that and consider how vegan footwear and clothing is produced too.

Have her do this footprint calculator and see what harm her 4 long haul holidays a year are doing. footprint.wwf.org.uk/

Poor lady. Shes not enjoying food. One of my colleagues was vegan. Vv peachy about it. Great cook...cakes were....lets just put it the birds wouldnt touch them. Luckily see seen the light and now only veggie. Cakes are better! Tbh the only ones i know who got vegan have issues with food. She needs your support x

Actually london I make vegan brownies which people eat with great enjoyment, even when I DON'T tell them that they're vegan!!.

I don't label myself anything but I don't have dairy or most high protein foods, the food is delicious ( I cook very fresh food from scratch with plenty of herbs, onion and garlic, olive oil etc).

I used to work with someone who would make us vegan cakes and tell us you couldn’t tell the difference to normal cakes. It was really obvious she hadn’t had a normal cake in 20 years....
I don’t think she was representative of most vegans, she seemed mostly to dislike food.

Meh meat and dairy is horrendous for you health, horrendous for the environment. There’s actually no two ways about it. Free range chickens? Male baby chicks are still killed. High welfare meat? Still an animal that was killed.
That being said I’m not a vegan, evidentially I’m an awful person because I know quite a lot about how bad these industries are and still take part in consuming these products.
The preachy part doesn’t get to me too much, it’s kind of choosing the lesser of two evils. Plant based means you aren’t consuming saturated fats, high cholesterol foods, I don’t know it probably is the best option.
I think vegans feel that their veganism won’t help the planet unless they get everyone on board. And there’s always arguments for both sides, factory farmed hens for eggs, the state the poor chickens are in and how eggs are full of fat and cholesterol and grossness, but the yolk is also filled with LOADS of vital vitamins, healthy B12, healthy fats.
It’s swings and roundabouts.

no food is 'horrendous' for your health, that is blogger talk.

our very existence buggers up the planet.

tHESE threads give vegans a bad name, for every vegan of the type you refer to there are 20 more NEVER mentioning it unless it comes up in conversation.