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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AMBU to think that being a vegan doesn't automatically give you the mo

106 replies

scepticalNC · 30/03/2018 14:16

NC for this as friend knows I'm on here.
A close friend of mine is a vegan, let's call her VF. I love her and she's wonderful. But shes become very preachy about veganism and it's getting to me. It really is constant. It seems like nothing else matters - non-vegans are ruining the planet. She has said she is depressed because those around her (presumably me) don't see the damage they are doing to the planet. From what I understand, for her it's more about the environment than about animal welfare.
I have no problem with veganism- but VF drives everywhere, goes on probably on average of 4 long haul holidays per year and has a dog that she feeds meat. All of these things have an environmental impact too.
We have a car but it gets used maybe once a month- we walk, cycle or sometimes use public transport. We have maybe 1 or 2 holidays a year and very occasionally fly longhaul. We buy local and seasonal. We don't eat meat often but when we do we buy very high welfare meat. We do however eat a fair amount of seafood. We probably eat meat/seafood free meals about 50% of the week. We do consume a lot of milk a lot but we have a toddler. (She was pretty harsh when I switched DC from breast milk to cows milk at 1 year old, not to mention that fact that having DC is hugely damaging to the planet).
Our milk is from a local organic dairy, is delivered in glass bottles which are reusable. I think the milk travels less than 10 miles. Her almond milk is sold in non recyclable cartons, is made from almonds that are grown in and then flown all the way from California, where they have frequent water shortages.
I'm not sure I can agree that drinking almond milk is saving the planet here!
She will eat foods containing palm oil but not eggs. We get a lot of our eggs from my FIL who has chickens. He spends a lot of time keeping the chickens safe - I know a lot of people with chickens and they regularly get killed by foxes. They give FIL eggs and he keeps them fed and safe from the foxes - seems like a mutually beneficial relationship to me? If they were "liberated" they would be dead in hours. How is eating their eggs worse than eating palm oil which is having huge environmental impacts? (I'm not denying that lots of hens are kept in awful conditions - and I wouldn't buy their eggs). We all make our own judgements about what we think is wrong or right on these types of things - I don't believe there is an objectively right or wrong answer. But she does. Obviously there are lots of issues at play here but I feel like she thinks being vegan gives people the right to constantly criticise others. It's more complicated than that.
VF recently made some comments about someone we know who is on a very low income, and eats a load of cheap processed food (evident as she posts pics of her weekly shop and almost every meal her an her family eat on SM). VF was criticising her, saying she doesn't care about the planet etc. I pointed out that she was a single mum and on a very low income which makes things hard food wise and pointed out that she did not own a car and has never even left the country, so was doing her bit for the planet in her own way.

I would never dream of preaching to anyone about lifestyle, but it's mostly what VF talks about these days I feel like it's reached the point where I want to point out that it's not all as black and white as she believes it to be. I'm sure if I do she will see it as a personal attack on her ideology (whereas when she criticises my way of life that's fine because I'm murdering the planet).
AMBU?

OP posts:
BearSoFair · 30/03/2018 15:06

YANBU and actually I'm wondering if we share a vegan friend as she sounds very much like someone I know!

WazFlimFlam · 30/03/2018 15:07

I think her criticising you for having a child is crossing a line tbh. The criticism of women who have children is inherently misogynistic, and deeply hypocritical. Why does she deserve to live with her western carbon footprint but your child doesn't?

UpstartCrow · 30/03/2018 15:10

Its crazy to import oil when we can grow it.

If people were really bothered they'd be doing something to help British farming and create jobs, we could be a lot more self reliant, and we could also grow diesel crops such as canola and sugar beet.

We should be growing crops that can produce seed for next year instead of relying on Monsanto to provide us with seed crops.

We could also make better use of double glazed greenhouses and indoor fish farms. Plants can be used as a secondary crop and also to filter the water for the fish.

BrightYellowDaffodil · 30/03/2018 15:10

There's no zealot like a recent convert. I have quite a few vegan friends and you'd not know it for most of them. They don't mention it unless it comes to, say, me cooking a meal for them or going to a BBQ at theirs when they'll ask if people are OK with everything being vegan. Or it comes up in a conversation about food generally.

However, I have one newly-converted vegan who keeps posting on FB with pictures of baby pigs on plates (apparently it's bad form to reply "Yum!" - who knew?) or how she's desperately sad to see animal transport vehicles on the motorway etc. I've zoned out because I'm getting a bit fed up with the constant mission to Convert The Uneducated For Their Own Good. They generally run out of steam in the end, and in the meantime a "Mmmm, interesting point - I'll bear that in mind" placates them enough that no tempers are lost. Trust me, I've tried debating (will only buy high-welfare-standard meat, have friends who raise meat on smallholdings so have seen for myself that good animal husbandry is perfectly possible, but I just don't think it's wrong to raise animals for meat as long as they are treated humanely in life and death) and it's as enjoyable and productive as banging my head on a wall while stabbing myself in the eye.

TeamRick · 30/03/2018 15:12

My sister is a vegan
My mum is a Jehovah's Witness

I can tell who is worse for constantly pushing their views down your throat and it isn't my Mum!
It drives me absolutely bonkers, she is obsessed, can talk about nothing else, if you mention you have a cold she tells me that would be 'stopped in it's tracks by a plant based diet'! Honestly I have started to avoid her!

I get it, eating meat is bad for the planet & can be bad for your health but honestly she drives me to a bacon sandwich!

BrightYellowDaffodil · 30/03/2018 15:13

No I think the environmental issue is that you can eat some meat in an environmentally friendly manner.

Quite - I think it was on Countryfile or similar that some land just cannot be cultivated for crops or indeed used for anything else because it's sloped, full of rocks or otherwise inaccessible by tractors etc and/or impossible to plough/build on. Might as well put the land to use by putting sheep on it.

ppeatfruit · 30/03/2018 15:14

Thejoy There are lovely chocolates, even vegan ones (from small producers ) that are ethically produced without palm oil. I'm the same veggie as you and we try to eat only organically including meat ,which dh eats. We are lucky because we live by amazing organic producers.

I admire your no plastics stance and wish I could be the same but DH is a bit gung ho when he shops!

TheFirstMrsDV · 30/03/2018 15:17

I was lectured by a vegan a few weeks ago.
I have been a vegetarian for 31 years.
They had been a vegan for 4 months.

FOUR MONTHS and they were telling me I was killing the planet whilst they were saving it and all the fluffy animals on it.

They didn't even like animals. Hated my dogs. (you don't have to like my dogs but it was still weird).

I am all for more people going vegan and I don't think all vegans are horrible. I bet I have met loads of vegans who didn't feel the need to mention it.
There was a bloke on tv a while ago screaming about cow rape.
I thought that kind of talk would make people switch off and do more harm than good.
Another baby vegan saw fit to school me Hmm

I blame the internet. It gives aggressive twats a platform and tells them all about the latest bandwagon to jump on.

I feel really sorry for nice vegans. Sad

Andrewofgg · 30/03/2018 15:17

Sorry WazFlimFlam but why is criticising women who have children misogynistic?

Spiteful and riddled with hatred to our entire species, yes, but why misogynistic?

Unless of course the person concerned thinks it is all right for men to beget children but not for women to conceive and bear them? Is anyone really that silly?

ppeatfruit · 30/03/2018 15:23

TheFirstMrs. Dh says that the internet is like giving a machine gun to a chimpanzee Grin Sorry to any chimpanzee animal lovers Grin

Windmyonlyfriend · 30/03/2018 15:23

Sorry, bit of a tangent, but how do those of you who avoid palm oil in products generally find that? I do a weekly Tesco shop and have to feed myself (vegan), DH (veggie) and two fussy (omnivore) pre-schoolers on a budget; I’d really like to go palm-oil free but it just seems to be in so many things Sad

DiseasesOfTheSheep · 30/03/2018 15:25

It's possible to be a responsible, environmentally friendly vegan, or meat eater. Most people don't bother, or aren't in a position where it's possible (logistics, finances etc). It's hopeless to preach at people either way. I like to respond by telling people that I believe not eating meat is completely counter-intuitive for animal welfare. Those who care should buy local, high welfare animal products, because that way we keep farm animals alive (who otherwise would not be bred) and in high welfare conditions. Ideally, you source from places you've seen and know how good the animals' environment is.

In reality, I believe that people should eat whatever the hell they want (within standard legal constraints!) and it's nobody else's business. But if an extreme vegan/ vegetarian wants to preach, I'm happy to bicker with them about it...

ppeatfruit · 30/03/2018 15:26

Wind I know it's in everything even in organic spreads. I use olive oil for my toast and cooking, dh uses organic butter (he's not veggie or vegan) just tries to eat carefullyish!

PoorYorick · 30/03/2018 15:32

Everyone's a hypocrite, it's nigh on impossible not to be in this society. We choose our lines.

scepticalNC · 30/03/2018 15:33

@TheFirstMrsDV I'm pretty sure I saw the same cow rape man on TV too. Me and DH genuinely wondered if he knows that cow sex / most other animal sex isn't generally consensual? The cows aren't going to the cinema and then to pizza express. The female cow isn't texting her friend Vicky to ask if she thinks it's a bad idea to sleep with Gary the cow on the first date, or hold out a big longer.
And yes I agree about the newly converted! We've been trying to live (what we consider, but I realise it's not an objective standard) ethically for years. She's been a vegan for maybe a year. Before that she was a committed McDonald's eater.

OP posts:
HunterHearstHelmsley · 30/03/2018 15:34

I was veggie for years. When I was starting to consider eating meat again I went to a vegan bbq. Lots of preachy vegans. They made my mind up for me and I'm a meat eater again.

I don't think they realise they push people the other way.

Windmyonlyfriend · 30/03/2018 15:40

I don't think they realise they push people the other way.

Absolutely. I wasn’t converted to veganism by preaching, placards or ‘cubes of truth’; those tactics make vegans look weird and make veganism look inaccessible and difficult.

I started to seriously consider it when I realised a woman I knew, a totally normal, lovely woman living an ordinary life, was a vegan. And I thought I’d she could do it, no reason I couldn’t. That was much more compelling to me than anything else.

Windmyonlyfriend · 30/03/2018 15:43

Your friend needs to get a grip on herself.

Sarahjconnor · 30/03/2018 15:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ppeatfruit · 30/03/2018 15:50

sceptical Grin The cows don't have conversations among themselves about the time of month when they're to be artifcially inseminated either Grin

ppeatfruit · 30/03/2018 15:59

The only slight excuse your loud mouthed rude vegan friend has is that at least she has thought about what she's eating and isn't one of the mindless masses who are keeping that Mc place in profit.

troodiedoo · 30/03/2018 16:00

I have a vegan friend and she's proud of the fact that she annoys the shit out of everyone on Facebook. Hmm it is indeed a religion as has been said.

So tedious when they comment "ew dead animal flesh" as if we don't know what meat is and that will put us off.

DiegoMadonna · 30/03/2018 16:07

Is he/she new to being vegan? A lot of new veggies/vegans are like this. Their eyes have been opened to some huge issues and they feel like they need other people to come to the same realisation as they have.

They'll likely get over it when they realise that nothing they ever say will ever change anybody's mind and that veganism arguments are tedious as fuck. I don't know anyone who's been a veggie/vegan for more than a year or two and ever mentions it unless somebody else brings it up.

DiegoMadonna · 30/03/2018 16:11

If you think about it, it's understandable that veganism is like a religion. If you believed that you were morally superior and other people were putting themselves and the planet in danger, wouldn't you tell them?

I found out recently that my cousin believes non-believers all go to hell. As in, eternal damnation. I asked why she never tried to save me since surely she must not like the idea of me spending eternity in hell, and she said she didn't want to be preachy. Great, but if you REALLY believe this stuff, you should be terrified for me! I was kind of offended really.

Purplelife · 30/03/2018 16:13

DH and I are veggies and sometimes go through periods of being vegan when we need to detox off too much dairy. We have a preachy vegan friend. A lovely person and I do get they are trying to be a good person. However , so OT on the moral high ground ( about absolutely everything not just veganism. We get corrected and told off which becomes draining. This person is like a spectator/critic at a tennis match when it comes to their life. Also, anti-money, so being workshy and just letting those who do work carry you is a noble spiritual pursuit.Pfft. Having money so you’re able to give to charities a substantial amount is not seen as a positive for having money. You don’t need money, you help by giving your time, though he doesn’t volunteer ever.... hahaha

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