AMBU to think that being a vegan doesn't automatically give you the mo

[scepticalNC]

NC for this as friend knows I'm on here.
A close friend of mine is a vegan, let's call her VF. I love her and she's wonderful. But shes become very preachy about veganism and it's getting to me. It really is constant. It seems like nothing else matters - non-vegans are ruining the planet. She has said she is depressed because those around her (presumably me) don't see the damage they are doing to the planet. From what I understand, for her it's more about the environment than about animal welfare.
I have no problem with veganism- but VF drives everywhere, goes on probably on average of 4 long haul holidays per year and has a dog that she feeds meat. All of these things have an environmental impact too.
We have a car but it gets used maybe once a month- we walk, cycle or sometimes use public transport. We have maybe 1 or 2 holidays a year and very occasionally fly longhaul. We buy local and seasonal. We don't eat meat often but when we do we buy very high welfare meat. We do however eat a fair amount of seafood. We probably eat meat/seafood free meals about 50% of the week. We do consume a lot of milk a lot but we have a toddler. (She was pretty harsh when I switched DC from breast milk to cows milk at 1 year old, not to mention that fact that having DC is hugely damaging to the planet).
Our milk is from a local organic dairy, is delivered in glass bottles which are reusable. I think the milk travels less than 10 miles. Her almond milk is sold in non recyclable cartons, is made from almonds that are grown in and then flown all the way from California, where they have frequent water shortages.
I'm not sure I can agree that drinking almond milk is saving the planet here!
She will eat foods containing palm oil but not eggs. We get a lot of our eggs from my FIL who has chickens. He spends a lot of time keeping the chickens safe - I know a lot of people with chickens and they regularly get killed by foxes. They give FIL eggs and he keeps them fed and safe from the foxes - seems like a mutually beneficial relationship to me? If they were "liberated" they would be dead in hours. How is eating their eggs worse than eating palm oil which is having huge environmental impacts? (I'm not denying that lots of hens are kept in awful conditions - and I wouldn't buy their eggs). We all make our own judgements about what we think is wrong or right on these types of things - I don't believe there is an objectively right or wrong answer. But she does. Obviously there are lots of issues at play here but I feel like she thinks being vegan gives people the right to constantly criticise others. It's more complicated than that.
VF recently made some comments about someone we know who is on a very low income, and eats a load of cheap processed food (evident as she posts pics of her weekly shop and almost every meal her an her family eat on SM). VF was criticising her, saying she doesn't care about the planet etc. I pointed out that she was a single mum and on a very low income which makes things hard food wise and pointed out that she did not own a car and has never even left the country, so was doing her bit for the planet in her own way.

I would never dream of preaching to anyone about lifestyle, but it's mostly what VF talks about these days I feel like it's reached the point where I want to point out that it's not all as black and white as she believes it to be. I'm sure if I do she will see it as a personal attack on her ideology (whereas when she criticises my way of life that's fine because I'm murdering the planet).
AMBU?

Thefirstmrsdvd - there is something off about people who dislike animals that I just don’t trust. It annoys me when you get people who love dogs but hate cats or vice versa for example. I quit my last role, a couple weeks after my psycho boss told me how much he hates cats and his dog killed the neighbours cat.

I was looking at a veggie YouTube channel once, you shouldn’t have seen the hate the vegans were giving vegetarians who loved the recipe!

@ScepticalNC

Have to say I also hate annoying preachy 'vegans,' and the more preachy and judgemental they are, the less likely they are genuine vegans. I know 5 different 'vegans,' and all but one eat milk chocolate, muffins, cakes, and pizza sometimes, (and other things made with dairy!) FINE if you wanna do that, but don't call yourself a fucking vegan and preach to ME about eating dairy, and fish and chicken! Fucking annoying disingenuous twats!

@Eggzandbacon

I have 2 vegan friends:
One is an environmentalist, grows a huge amount of her own food, makes sure everything she does has as limited impact as possibly. She keeps chickens and has eggs in her diet (on basis she loves the chickens and they would go to waste otherwise).

One lives off a heavily processed vegan diet, drives everywhere, uses lots of packaging, lots of her food travels huge distance. She believes we could liberate all farm animals and that wouldn’t be an issue for anyone. Her diet is also appalling, all carbs and fake meat.

Guess which one is preachy and which one isn’t!

Your first friend is not a vegan.

Vegans don't eat eggs! Saying 'I am a vegan, but I eat the eggs as they would go to waste' is ludicrous. If she eats eggs, she is not a vegan!

@Thefirstmrsdv

I was lectured by a vegan a few weeks ago. I have been a vegetarian for 31 years. They had been a vegan for 4 months.

FOUR MONTHS and they were telling me I was killing the planet whilst they were saving it and all the fluffy animals on it. They didn't even like animals. Hated my dogs. (you don't have to like my dogs but it was still weird).

I am all for more people going vegan and I don't think all vegans are horrible. I bet I have met loads of vegans who didn't feel the need to mention it.

Another baby vegan saw fit to school me. I blame the internet. It gives aggressive twats a platform and tells them all about the latest bandwagon to jump on.

All of this ^ I think we all know someone like this. I am royally fucked off with these twats. And though I dislike bashing young people/millennials (as I feel they get a hard time sometimes,) it is ALWAYS THEM. Always 17-25 y.o., Corbynistas, leftie, usually uni students (or post-grad,) always been to some far-flung place in Asia with a backpack, and always accuse anyone who voted for Brexit of being a thick bigot. You know the type - We all do. If you DON'T know someone like this in, then YOU are one of them!

I have absolutley no issue with vegans as long as they don’t start preaching about it. Some vegan food is amazing however I will not give up my meat for no one. I eat what I eat end of story. Only way I’d change is if for medical reasons but even then it would be a really good reason. I know a few they gene4ally don’t talk about the reasons too much around me but we do discuss recipes.
Still don’t unde4stand why vegans can’t eat cheese or drink milk as no cows were hurt or killed during this process. I did have one girl work with us who was devout vegan and banged on about animal cruelty etc but wore real leather shoes 😂 I used that to make her tone down.
One of my friends always maintains that vegans are killing too.... the plants they eat stop insects from eating. He does make me laugh when he brings that up 😂😂

Whenever a vegan preaches at me I make a point of eating veal at the earliest possible opportunity.

I love veal anyway.

Sophisticated The dairy industry is way more cruel than the meat industry. Dairy cows have a horrific life, and yes animals are hurt and killed as a result. Hence, no dairy.

Still don’t unde4stand why vegans can’t eat cheese or drink milk as no cows were hurt or killed during this process

seriously? I am a committed carnivore and know that to provide milk cows have to go through repeated pregnancies, and have their calves taken away from them at a young age - the male calves being practically worthless are often shot within hours of birth.

Disclaimer: Not a vegan .

I think the problem I find with it is there is a clear assumption we have not thought about any of the issues involved. The assumption seems to be is that non-vegans are either uneducated philistines or simply don't understand that they are eating FLESH and CHICKEN PERIODS.
Ive watched the Netflix documentaries and I've done a lot of my own research. I've been to the farm where our milk comes from and I know the names of the chickens who produce most or our eggs. I have made an informed decision to support local ethical farmers with high welfare standards. And that's me and my family's decision to make.
Others can look at an issue and come to a different conclusion about it.

I’m currently a meat eater but thinking about moving toward a veggie diet with the long term goal of veganism for environmental reasons. But all the preachy vegans put me off. I don’t want to be associated with that type of behaviour. So really how the behave is just off putting and doesn’t help promote their agenda. Yanbu op

Okay fair enough! I guess I’ve only heard the stuff they want you to hear. Still love my meat though....

I have a very Vegangelical friend. I love her but blimey it's tedious sometimes.

@TheFirstMrsDV I’m another lifelong vegetarian, now in my 30s. I’ve recently had several new vegans school me. One of them eats fish ‘just once in a while’ and doesn’t care if cosmetics and household products are tested on animals. That’s up to her, and I wouldn’t lecture her in either of those things because these things are complex.

Environmentally I try to keep plastic to a minimum with bamboo toothbrushes, washable dishcloths and baby wipes, cleaning products from Splosh etc. But notice how much pointless plastic packaging there is. I rarely go on holiday but have flown a fair amount for work, so it’s not like I’m unaware of the issues and how I could do better.

I’m pretty interested in environmentalism but I hate talking about it with them because they always know best despite the fact that they’re only a few months into it, and I’ve been thinking about this stuff since I was a kid.

What I don't get is the vegan propaganda adverts (now often on buses) showing mummy and baby fresian cow looking all cute, as if that would be their life if we were all vegans.

Surely cattle and other farm animals would simply be made extinct if everyone was vegan? The fields would be needed for crops, and vegans won't keep animals in zoos or as pets, so they would all have to be shot. How is that better for the animals?

I don't get their logic at all

I'm a preachy vegan...I have no friends

MissWilmott vegans using cows as propoganda pictures is very weird indeed, as if veganism were enshrined in law cows would very quickly become a rare pet for the rich or a zoo animal, they'd become very rare very fast and most already existing would be slaughtered and burnt as nobody could afford to keep them without being able to sell milk and meat.

A butcher local to us has a picture of a beautiful rare breed piglet looking happy as the proverbial pig in muck in a free range settings as their advert :o but we live in rural Germany and nobody seems to have a problem calling a schnitzel Schweinefleisch :o

sceptical if your friend is really as full on as you describe dial the friendship right back or point out her hypocrisy with the long haul flights and car use very bluntly and say you've tried to be patient can't listen to her preach any longer without pointing out that the irony. It'll either end the friendship or she'll tone it down, either would be better.

A FB friend of mine put up a photo of her severely disabled child enjoying engaging with chicks at his special needs school. It was a lovely photo of a special moment.
Lots of 'thats lovely', 'oh look at him' type comments.
Local Annoying Vegan pops up 'What is going to happen to those chicks now?'

That says it all about Annoying Vegans doesn't it?
Never miss an opportunity to virtue signal and imply that THEY are the only person to REALLY CARE.
Not gaf if they bulldoze into a special moment for someone who lives a pretty challenging life.

MissWilmott I don't think anybody realistically expects the entire world to go vegan overnight (which would of course be a disaster).

But if everybody gradually stopped eating meat from animals, which could actually happen over time when lab-grown meat becomes affordable and mainstream, then I imagine measures would be put in place to ensure certain cow/chicken/pig populations are maintained through conservation efforts, as is already the case with many wild animals around the world.

Bustopher I am very aware of how much plastic we use. I stopped using bags years ago (oh how they all laughed at me collecting those free calico tote bags given out at fetes and fairs. HAH! not laughing now).
My big ol' guilty secret is beauty products. I have become acutely aware of the sheer amount of plastic all my miracle potions come wrapped in.

The person who lectures me about veganism is my Ds who is in 40s. Until 3 years ago he was the one always wanted me to cook a roast dinner when he came over. He has had a number of girl friends over the last few years who got him into yoga (not just as exercise but also a way of life).

He has tried persuading his sister that she should bring dgs up as a vegetarian which is not happening. I have had to explain to him that as a diabetic who eats very few carbs, so no beans, potatoes, rice or pasta that if I didn't eat meat I would have great difficulty getting the vitamins and minerals I need to live.

There’s a lot of memes out there about just this. How do you know someone’s vegan? They’ll tell you (or be wearing a fucking t shirt).

I was vegan for about two years and it was great, I felt the healthiest I’ve ever been. I mostly stopped because I was tired of eating plain salad and chips in restaurants. It’s extremely restrictive and expensive (some vegans will try and argue against the expense by mentioning lentils and potatoes but we’re not in a third world country so...)
Another reason I stopped was because I defeated bloody vegans that much. The sanctimonious bullshit that endlessly spills from their mouths... I just couldn’t bear it so stopping veganism in ways was like my little rebellion. I am still veggie as I just don’t like the taste or smell of meat.

Your friend is incredibly hypocritical. We all destroy the planet merely by being here.

Just tell her that we are all doing our best with what with have. No judgements.

Have a look in her cleaning cupboard. Those nasty chemicals are terrible...

Vegans are annoying. The rest of your post just makes her sound worse.

Get rid of her. Eat a steak.

I'm lucky as I have non preachy vegan friends. They are just busy living their lives and we all respect each others choices without the need to explain or defend all the time.

Op, I don't understand why you just don't pull her up on it when she says these things to you?! Eg 'animals are ruining the planet' - 'well yes, possibly, but to be honest so are long haul flights to places like ' or 'true, but so is driving everywhere so I guess we all have things we could improve on' (with pointed look).

She sounds exhausting! I But I'm sure there must be a lot of vegans we don't know about because they're not preachy, and like anything, we only hear the annoying loud ones.

I'm a vegetarian (but not a preachy one). I can understand where vegans are coming from but in all honesty it's nearly impossible to eat completely 'cruelty free'.

Next time she tells you about her 'cruelty free' lifestyle, ask her how many small mice, voles and insects were killed when the combine harvester ploughed the fields to get the wheat, corn etc, that she eats? Or how many worms were cut in half when farmers dug up he vegetables she eats? Or how many poor, migrant workers work for hours on low pay to pick fruit or harvest vegetables?

I 100% agree we should minimise harm and suffering to other people and animals wherever possible, but I think we need to be realistic that it's nigh on impossible to get rid of this completely.