Concerned about lodger in my ex's house... with my kids

[RoseNarene]

I'll give you the short version.

The house my ex lives in is jointly owned by me. We are currently going through court to sort this out. He has a lodger because he can't afford the mortgage on his own. I have no issue with him taking a lodger as it's in my interest for the mortgage to get paid.

However, I know nothing of this lodger except his first name. My ex and I are on very bad terms so when I asked for more info he ignored me. I asked him to get a DBS check done on him but he said no. He said he had a "fit and proper person" check done due to his job but didn't provide details when I asked. He says he knows this guy from work but he never mentioned his name when we were together and he lied to me about how he met a previous lodger (who had a DBS so I wasn't worried about) so I can't trust what he says. The room he is letting out has been advertised online so this lodger could be anyone for all I know.

All my attempts to find out more have been ignored. He won't even tell me his last name.

My children spend 5 overnights a fortnight at this house with this unknown lodger, and I know from my eldest daughter (who is 5) that he does interact with my kids and play with them etc, which I'm not happy about, but haven't said anything.

It's not that I'm certain this guy is a danger to my girls but I am very unsettled with him having potentially unrestricted and unsupervised access to my children.

AIBU to want to know more about him and to get the relevant checks done to keep my girls safe? Since he won't give me any info about him what do I do?

It’s not a healthy and normal perspective to think any stranger coming into contact with your dc is going to harm them

Ivykaty44, there is a difference between coming into contact with and living with. Think about it, five year old gets up in the night to use the toilet, meets lodger on the landing, Dad is asleep... We're not saying it's likely but it is possible. Would you invite a stranger from the street to live down the hall from your young DC?

Lots of people are asking me why I am automatically worried, why do I assume this man may be abusing my children etc - I'm a secondary school teacher and it's a requirement in my job that every single year I have safeguarding training. It doesn't really help in my situation as it's from a professional perspective (though it does help with regard to understanding the signs of abuse / neglect) however, the rule that we are all trained to use is: don't think what I'm wrong - think what if I'm right. So that is the mindset that I am tentatively adopting.

BoneyBackJefferson First of all, I don't have a partner. But yes, I am aware that statistically speaking, there is a chance that any partner I have could be a danger to my kids. But the only answer to that issue is for me to never have a partner and for me to ensure that my ex never has a partner, and neither of those are realistic, are they? We are not talking about partners. Partners are a different kettle of fish altogether. This isn't someone who has an intimate relationship with my ex, a relationship that (hopefully) will have been developed over time with the two of them getting to know one another. This is a STRANGER who more than likely responded to an ad over the internet, who my ex let into our house without bothering to check who the hell he is because he is so desperate to pay the mortgage.

Addy22 you'd think so, wouldn't you? But no. I don't have any say who lives in my house. I don't even have any keys to the place. He changed the locks when I left and if I want some I have to go to court to get them.

Penfold007 I'm not paying the mortgage because I moved out. I was forced to move out because of emotional abuse; my ex threatened to take the kids away and he would regularly taunt me about how I was going to lose everything in the divorce. I didn't want to leave bit I couldn't stay there and be treated that way and allow my daughters to see all of that so I took the girls and left. I was forced to give up my job for this same reason so didn't have the money to pay the mortgage and kept telling him and telling him that we needed to put the house on the market but he refused. This was almost a year ago.

Ha, didn't quite type that safeguarding message properly - it's meant to be don't think what if I'm wrong, think what if I'm right.

You're not getting a dbs check on the lodger and you have absolutely no say who your daughter's have contact with or what they do when they are staying with their father.
I do sympathize as it is difficult when you're going through a messy, toxic breakup with kids involved but yabu.

Addy there is no difference, if you go through life thinking every person is going to groom your child then that isn’t normal

A DSB check doesn’t stop grooming as has been proved in nurseries where staff have been checked yet abused children in their care

ivykaty44 Where did I say that I suspect everyone is going to groom my child? My eldest attends school, my youngest attends nursery. They both have contact with a wide variety of people and no, I don't suspect everyone they meet will hurt them.

But this is someone who is LIVING IN MY HOUSE WITH THEM. He's not just someone who passes them by in the street or talks to them for five minutes in a queue. This is someone who lives in the house where my children sleep five nights a fortnight. Who has contact with them in a PRIVATE space, away from the public eye. My ex is hard of hearing so if this guy did decide to do something in the night, if he was that kind of person, then my ex wouldn't even wake up.

For those of you saying "what good is a DBS because he could still abuse your kids if he has a clean record" yes, you're right - well what do you suggest then? YOU might be happy to do nothing but I'm not. Let's assume he is an abuser who hasn't got caught - well, at least if I get a check done he knows I'm watching, that my kids aren't going to be an easy target. I don't know - but it's better than nothing.

Where did I say that you think it’s normal?

you’ve already decided this lodger is guilty for living in the household

For those of you saying "what good is a DBS because he could still abuse your kids if he has a clean record" yes, you're right - well what do you suggest then? YOU might be happy to do nothing but I'm not. Let's assume he is an abuser who hasn't got caught - well, at least if I get a check done he knows I'm watching, that my kids aren't going to be an easy target. I don't know - but it's better than nothing.

You can't get one. Think about it, of course individuals cannot request this sort of information about other individuals. You can use Sarah's law, that is your only option.

Wow SO much misinformation here.

Yes op has a right to use Sarah's law.

"What will you do when the kids go on scout/guide sleepovers - they will be with strangers." ANYONE involved in an official capacity with children has to undergo background checks. I've been a scout, guide, youth club leader and nanny and childminder and had this done numerous times.

In your position op I'd be stopping overnights at least until you know more about this person. Absolutely no way would I risk it especially as a survivor of csa myself.

My dd NEVER stayed overnight with ANYONE I didn't know well and that includes people connected to my ex - which he totally accepted and understood. If I had met someone new when dd was younger and it got serious enough he was staying over, moving in I absolutely would do what my ex wished to reassure him my new partner was safe too - though honestly I'd do that myself anyway which my ex would know.

I honestly think the posters saying yabu are very naive and ignorant of how abuse is possible and occurs. I honestly worry for the safety of their DC.

"Why are you assuming the lodger is a possible danger to your kids?" Common sense from knowing the stats?

"If the children are with the father surely it’s up to him to entertain them/be with them during their visit with him, surely the lodger wouldn’t be with them alone?" SO SO naive - their father is unlikely to be with them ALL the time - he has to go to the loo, shower, sleep at some point! In addition as I said on another thread (about a caught paedo) there's a FALSE idea that abuse even grooming only happens when children are left alone with abusers - WRONG it can and does happen right under the noses of other protective adults.

"It’s not a healthy and normal perspective to think any stranger coming into contact with your dc is going to harm them" considering the high number of children that are abused maybe it should be? In addition - he's NOT a stranger to the DC which makes him MORE able to groom/abuse if he wants to.

No a background check doesn't guarantee this guy is safe BUT depending on the result it makes it less likely he is dangerous.

Question for ALL those saying op bu - IF op does get this man checked and it turns out he IS a sex/violent offender - would you let YOUR children stay overnight with him? Come to that would YOU let your DC stay overnight with a COMPLETE stranger you've never met and all you know is their first name? I bloody wouldn't!

Graphista

And if the Ex takes her to court for stopping contact because she is worried, how do you think that that will play out?

A DBS means nothing unless you view it yourself. You do realise that DBS will show convictions including offences against children ? So just because a person has a DBS does not mean they are safe around children.

You have no right to ask for a DBS and if the lodger did get one ( just for being a lodger ) then it would only be a basic which does not show spent convictions which could include offences against children.

at court the op could explain why she stopped contact. Unfortunately I'm aware that not all judges would see it as a reasonable action but many would and would request cafcass assessments and possibly checking on the lodger themselves.

It's likely the op would at the very least find out the lodgers full name and occupation.

I've stopped contact myself (for different reasons) courts don't just automatically say the nrp MUST have contact, they listen to people's reasons.

OP,
I understand exactly what you are concerned about.

Your fear comes from the "inside knowledge" you have regarding the training courses you attend as a Professional.

Having this type of knowledge can/does make you a little paranoid, I speak from experience.

To all the Parents who are saying OP is over reacting.....believe me she isn't.

I believe it costs money to do a CRB check and I have only heard of this occurring in relation to employment or volunteering and there has to be consent. If mortgage is unaffordable why don't you sell the property and buy two smaller properties ? You cannot police who your children come into contact with when they are with their father and vice versa. You sound stressed.

I've been telling him for sell the house for the last 7/8 months but he won't and I can't do it without him.

We already have a court order so I don't think I can stop contact. I would do it if I was certain, if my daughter had told me that something had happened or if she was showing some of the signs of sexual abuse that I've learnt about in my safeguarding training, but she hasn't.

Thanks Graphista. I don't understand the hostility here. If the situation was reversed I would be doing everything I could to reassure him. If I was the lodger, even more so. I'm acting out of concern for my daughters' wellbeing, that's all.

I'm totally with you on this and I'm surprised so many people aren't. When my mum moved in with her now husband I was very relieved that he was also starting a job that required a full dbs check as it saved me having to request one.

We can never fully protect our children from everything, but have to do the best we can.

Can you ring the nspcc to see if they have advice? Or can you contact someone who did your safeguarding course to see if they can offer advice?

RoseNarene

I am sympathetic to your situation, but there are things that you can't do, there are things that you can't do without repercussions and there are more productive ways to do things.

You aren't going to get a DBS check.
If you stop contact the court won't like it.

However, you could go to court and force the sale of the house, you both get a share and he downsizes.

I honestly think the posters saying yabu are very naive and ignorant of how abuse is possible and occurs. I honestly worry for the safety of their DC. The point is she can't get a DBS for a lodger, that isn't what the system is for. She can get a disclosure under Sarah's law and that is what she has been advised to do.

I came back to type precisely what Boney said!

Ignore the posters that are still banging on about the pros and cons of DBS checks... you can't get one!

Being worried about what might happen isn't going to convince a court that your XHs lodger is sufficient danger or proof the XH is an ineffectual or dangerous father

You really should be focussing on the nitty gritty of your divorce, and that includes fair distribution of assets, etc.

I would also add that you seem to have been scared by some of the issues you came across in your safeguarding training, so much so that you are evaluating your DD to see if she is being harmed.

THAT is not healthy, for you or her. Maybe if you could focus on seeing through a proper divorce settlement, becoming more independent of your XH, regaining your self, you might feel less haunted by what ifs and maybes.

I sympathise with your concerns OP but I think it unlikely that you can insist on meeting the lodger and it is even more unlikely that you can get a DBS check done.
In contrast to what Graphista suggests I think it very unlikely that a judge would think it reasonable for you to restrict access as you have no evidence that the lodger is a stranger. He could be someone from your ex's workplace who has been check as a "fit and proper person" so you will just be restricting access because you haven't met him which seems unlikely to be a good enough reason. Would a judge insist that ex's have a right to vet potential partners as I see no difference? Before restricting access I would get proper legal advice as it could have serious repercussions for you.

I think the only thing you can do is see is get a disclosure under Sarah's law and also try to force the sale of the house.

If the situation was reversed I would be doing everything I could to reassure him. If I was the lodger, even more so.

Why would he want to reaasure you if you are on very bad terms though? He might do the very opposite just to wind you up. I certainly don't see why any lodger would want to reassure the landlord's ex.