Taking husbands name

[luelle]

I've just read a twitter thread regarding women taking their husbands surname when they marry, and out of the hundreds of replies I skim read I would say a good 90% of the replies are people absolutely dead against it. Countless posts saying that it's ridiculous in this day and age, it's outdated and degrading, no women should be treated like property to be passed about. That its awful when women would throw away their family name without a second thought etc.. I'm just shocked, I never realised it had become such a negative thing in so many peoples eyes!

I am aware of the history behind taking surnames and yes it was to do with ownership from father to husband, but surely in this day and age we have moved past all that enough for it to simply just be a nice thing you do when you get married, if you want to?

I think it's become so common now for women to keep their maiden names, and I don't think women are really expected to take their last name anymore. It is a choice and it's great that women are free to make these choices - but I just found it quite sad that this thread had so many people bashing people that do choose to take their husbands name?

I plan to take my DPs name if we get married, just because I'd like to. In my mind, it's an exciting part of marriage and a new chapter. I'm still me, I'm still part of my family, I still have my family history. AIBU to be a little sad that I could actually be looked at negatively for doing so? Or have times just changed that much?

Sorry bold fail in 2nd para

Having been a vocal advocate for female equality/rights since the 70s, I still occasionally make non-feminist choices. I'm quite happy for people to point this out to me, it makes me reflect on what I said or did. It doesn't make me a non-feminist.

As has been said plenty of times on this thread, the taking of the man's name on marriage is a non-feminist choice regardless of the myriad of spurious reasons for doing so, but it doesn't particularly make the woman a non-feminist.

Worth repeating from a previous post regarding some posters who think that women have either her father's name or her husband's, at what point does a woman actually have a name to call her own?

A woman has a name she calls her own when she decides to own it. It may be the name that she inherited from her father, her husband's name if she chooses to take it, or a random name if she feels the need to do that. In the real world, most people do not randomly think to change their name because names generally have some link to family members, for better or worse.

The reason men don't tend to name-change is a throwback to when men were head of the household etc. This is not rocket science and does not need to be explained.

Women may change their names on marriage for all sorts of reasons - some may not think about it at all; some may do it to break with the past; some may do it as a form of respect for the husband; some may think it bonds them together more; some may think it's romantic; some may like adhering to tradition and some may just prefer the name!

It's not an equal playing field for men and women when it comes to name-changing but I guess it depends on how comfortable you are with that. It's whether you see equality as always meaning "sameness" or if you are secure enough to understand that there can be different roles and different expectations for men and women but you can still be equal.

“f you are secure enough to understand that there can be different roles and different expectations for men and women but you can still be equal“

What sort of roles and expectations do you mean?

So, what if I'm from a culture where women do not change their names on marriage at all, my father and family and society (and the patriarchy as it applies to my culture) expects me to not change it.....and I make a choice to defy them all and change my name on marriage to my new husbands?
Is that then a feminist decision? I would be defying the patriarchal expectation of my family, no?

Another one, what if I'm a lesbian and I marry and take the name of my new spouse? Is that a feminist or anti feminist decision? Or neutral?

"What sort of roles and expectations do you mean?"

Well there are different roles and expectations for men and women in certain areas. If you look at just the wedding scenario for one, there is a greater expectation on men to propose and spend a fortune on a ring, a greater expectation in women to change their name, a greater expectation on the groom party to make speeches, etc. Then when and if you have kids there is greater societal pressure for the woman to become the SAH parent and greater societal pressure on men to become the main financial provider as a result. This works for some couples because it's in line with their natural inclinations anyway, but some couples may interpret it as inequality.

@YourWanMajella
If everyone within a society were equal and kept their own name there would unlikely be societal pressure for you to not change it.
If you were to change it what would be the reasoning?
In terms of same sex relationships I don't see what's progressive about emulating sexist traditions with opposite sex relationships.

“The reason men don't tend to name-change is a throwback to when men were head of the household etc. This is not rocket science and does not need to be explained. “
It needs to be justified as to why they don’t change their names NOW, unless they still believe that crap. We have changed loads of things in line with modern understanding and equalities. If it is accrptable / respectable for men not want to change their names because they see themselves in some way as head of the family, how is your next premise ok: “It's whether you see equality as always meaning "sameness" or if you are secure enough to understand that there can be different roles and different expectations for men and women but you can still be equal.”

Women are supposed to see themselves as equal whilst changing their names to marry a man who won’t think of changing his because by tradition it is his right as head of the family and bearer of the family name not to change it?

YOU. DO.NOT.GET.TO.DECIDE.WHAT. IS.FEMINIST.AND.WHAT.IS NOT.

No. That’s what logic is for.

A feminist decision or act: one that advances the cause of equality between the sexes.

An unfeminist (or non-feminist, or whatever) decision or act is one that acts against the cause of advancing equality between the sexes, and perpetuates sexist or unequal systems or practices.

A neutral decision or act, in this context, is one that has no impact either way on equality between the sexes.

The debate here has been around whether name changing is actually unfeminist or whether it’s neutral, in the main.

Do you have an argument to advance on why name changing by women is in fact a feminist act?

Or would you prefer to call people ‘eejits’ (while complaining about other posters describing people as ‘dim’?)

If everyone within a society were equal and kept their own name there would unlikely be societal pressure for you to not change it

I didn't say everyone was equal, I said there was a pressure not to change it. So if a woman does, is it a feminist decision or not?

I didn't say everyone was equal, I said there was a pressure not to change it. So if a woman does, is it a feminist decision or not?

Wouldn’t it depend on where the tradition not to change names came from, and the degree to which either sex chose to keep or change names? If the expectation on men and women to keep their name on marriage was similar, I cant quite see how the system would be inherently sexist (without further information).

Is this a real society, or an interesting thought experiment?

We're not all in the UK, and its a real place I'm talking about.

We're not all in the UK, and its a real place I'm talking about.

Ok, so is there any of the context I mentioned? What is it that makes this a sexist practice, and therefore feminism becomes relevant?

@YourWanMajella
Where would the idea to change the name come from? Wouldn't it just seem like a bizarre thing to do. It is when you think about it

Ok, so is there any of the context I mentioned? What is it that makes this a sexist practice, and therefore feminism becomes relevant?

Well if the idea is that women are supposed to keep their fathers name, and they decide they want to change it, which is seen as bad choice?

Where would the idea to change the name come from? Wouldn't it just seem like a bizarre thing to do. It is when you think about it

If they married someone from another culture where the idea was common, and they decided they would like to do so in defiance of what their society expected of them?

Well if the idea is that women are supposed to keep their fathers name, and they decide they want to change it, which is seen as bad choice?

So actually, the sexist practice is automatically giving children their father’s name?

In which case, I don’t see that feminism is particularly relevant in terms of her decision to change or not - unless a man wouldn’t receive the same pressure from the same parents to keep his name.

But then I don’t buy into the ‘a woman’s name is only borrowed/her father’s’ argument for reasons detailed upthread.

And having arseholes in the family is not necessary because of an unequal society. Sometimes you just have arseholes in your family.

The decision over what name to give a child is where feminism comes into play, for me.

*necessarily, not necessary.

I very proudly took my husbands name as did my mother with my father. What’s in a name? There were no ifs or buts about what name I’d take when my husband and I married. He hasn’t got strong family ties so it really wouldn’t of mattered if I hadn’t taken his name but it’s lovely as a family to all be one. One name. Our family

mallet if you’ve read the thread you’d know there’s really nothing in a name. It’s the perpetuation of sexism that’s the issue.

There were no ifs or buts about what name I’d take when my husband and I married.

Did he question what name he’d take at any point?

it’s lovely as a family to all be one.

Indeed it is. I don't think every member of the family needs to share the same surname for the family to be as one though.

I suspect Wan is possibly talking about any one of a number of countries in the ME where name-changing is not traditional practice (despite more conservative and patriarchal cultures in general than in Britain), so its seen as a modern or more Western practice - something that people in the larger cities do.