To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

NFATR an incident where a homosexual expressed hatred towards a heterosexual Christian who argues against same-sex marriages being real or legalised, is not evidence that this homosexual hates heterosexuals. Or Christians. You cannot prove that homosexuals hate heterosexuals or Christians per se by citing examples of them hating people who do or say something that is perceived as homophobic.

To continually portray homosexuals as if they hate heterosexuals per se would be prejudiced.

JAPAB, you make a good point regarding generalising the motivations of all trans people. I hope that I have never spoken or thought in this way but I will be on my guard against it.

I'm not going to respond to you further JAPAB until you apologise for calling all women who merely speak an obvious biological truth "transphobic and deserving any hatred shown towards them".

You are in such an extreme position there that there is no point having any discussion with you. Rolling it back and a simple sorry will suffice.

"Women deserve it because....." and "women brought it on themselves because..." has long been the dialogue of people who would wish women to just shut up and accept the curtailing of their rights, and the changing of definitions of words, and the denial of their actual biology, like good little girls.

We must do what we're told - if we're told a man can become a woman - then we must accept it, or accept the consequences - right?

(Rules of Misogyny points 1, 2, 3, 4 and 8 ticked there - way to go!)

I'm just on the side now of "call me transphobic, see if I care"

If it literally - as Japab has just said - means "person woman who understands it is biologically impossible for humans to actually change their sex", then I'll wear my alleged transphobe medal with pride

I have real issues with those who argue that trans is in the brain, that there's been loads of research and it has been unequivocally proved that gender dysphoria is a real being born in the wrong body........ Where exactly is this evidence??

There isn't any. Proving that there is a neurological trait common in dysphoria/common in women/whatever, doesn't literally prove that a dysphoric individual was plonked in the wrong body by the gender sorting hat.

I think there could be a good case for legal action against anyone who calls a person with good biological reasoning and understanding a transphobe and then directly compares transphobes to homophobes. If you did this to me using my name/social media accounts you would very likely ruin my career and I would drag you through the courts and likely have full backing of the BMA.

Afaik "wrong body" was never meant literally by transsexual people - it was used to explain the feeling of dysphoria.

The internet took the saying and ran with it

And I wonder about the fact the "the internet" (or at least the bit we use) is so americocentric - where people are very religious - meaning the idea of a soul being put in the wrong body could gain traction?

ReluctantCamper A better description is TIMs/TIFs Trans Identifying Male/Trans Identifying Females used to describe men who I’d as women and women who I’d as men. It’s a more realistic description of people who claim to be the opposite ‘gender’ and reclaims the word woman for actual women.

There are those people who call themselves Transsexuals and commit to their need to take on the outward appearance of those of the opposite sex, by having the medications and surgical changes. There are many transsexuals who post on Mumsnet who are described as ‘truscum’ by the TRAs as they are very supportive to women’s need/desire for single sex places and don’t believe in the proposed moves towards self I’d. They are actually called terfs and transphobic because they support women. Go figure! These people are decent individuals and very very different from the crowd that shout bigot at women and try to close down free speech, while demanding women follow their dogma.

You will soon spot the difference between those who want debate and the TRAs #nodebate crowd.

"To continually portray homosexuals as if they hate heterosexualsper sewould be prejudiced"

So why isn't it then mysoginistic and prejudiced to portray all gender critical women as if they hate transpeople?

Tbh I'm with you, OP. This all stems back to women getting the vote. It never should have happened. Women's brains are innately different from men's and are not constituted to deal with social and public issues.

It's a fact - the man who said that got a knighthood, 5 honorary doctorates, 5 honorary orders, 6 fellowship (2 honorary), 4 prizes, 4 memberships and 3 medals (see here)

Getting the vote in the first place has put a huge burden on us and our brains are now essentially exploding all over the internet.

To quote Almoth, 'No doctor can ever lose sight of the fact that the mind of woman is always threatened with danger from the reverberations of her physiological emergencies.'

‘It is with such thoughts that the doctor lets his eyes rest upon the militant suffragist. He cannot shut them to the fact that there is mixed up with the woman’s movement much mental disorder'

If you're trying to debate trans issues, you're forgetting your place. Women shouldn't have any say in issues which affect their safety or wellbeing, however calmly or rationally they try to discuss things.

Almoth had it all sewn up as to why we wimmin shouldn't get the vote. It's all been downhill from there with all those libbers burning their bras and such-like.

There is no 'debate' about trans issues on MN. You very, very rarely see a genuine debate and sharing and acceptance of differing viewpoints.

There is an existing viewpoint shared by some (I share many of the views but not all) and if you don't agree to that; you're accused of being a TRA, a man, a handmaiden, not caring about women etc.

There has been literally nothing new presented in the last 2 years that I can think of. Just more - but look what this trans person said, look at what this transperson wants, should this person be in womens sports? and just repeated rehashing of the same arguments that have been going on for years on here. Oh, so you think a person can change sex? No they can't...do you not understand biology?
Here's a picture of Danielle or Alex AGAIN and on and on and on.

There is never any resolution because it always comes back to the same old tired arguments. 'I think this is transphobic' - well I don't and on and on. 'Stop trying to silence us!' you're not being silenced, that's why some people are asking for a trans board - because it is a very loud and dominant topic.

I nearly lost my job due to my views on self ID and the current woefully inadequate assessment of GD. I used to enthusiastically engage in threads on MN but there's only so many times you can have the same conversations before you realise there's no point. It's not achieving anything - it's just increasingly causing division which won't lead to the real issues being fought against.

Saying you're bored of trans threads on MN and you do see some transphobia doesn't mean you don't care or that you don't agree with a lot of concerns, it means you're bored with the same arguments that ultimately aren't doing anything except pushing some women towards switching off entirely.

Which isn't what we need or want.

There has been literally nothing new presented in the last 2 years that I can think of. Just more - but look what this trans person said, look at what this transperson wants, should this person be in womens sports? and just repeated rehashing of the same arguments that have been going on for years on here.

There has literally been many posts by and with trans women debating and discussing things on here. Shame you missed them.

Yes, the overload is exactly the problem.

There has been literally nothing new presented in the last 2 years that I can think of. Just more - but look what this trans person said, look at what this transperson wants, should this person be in womens sports? and just repeated rehashing of the same arguments that have been going on for years on here.

I can say hand on heart I've seen differing viewpoints and debate on here.

But what it boils down to is that certain biological facts are immutable. So if you are seeing the same thing rehashed to a degree then that is because there is no wiggle room on certain matters. I've seen it posted so many times that women on here would gladly get behind campaigns for third spaces and shortlists specifically for trans people, for example. I've seen people debate the role of autism in the massive rise of trans men (boys) and how best to deal with those cases. But it is ok to say, no we are not budging on losing our own safe spaces, no we don't want men in women's refuges, no we don't want men in women's sports.

There are certain things I won't happy to compromise on. That doesn't mean I don't want trans people to live safe, happy lives, but just not at the expense of vulnerable women.

Yes, the overload is exactly the problem

If you feel overloaded its your problem, and your responsibility to withdraw. It is NOT for you to tell everyone else to shut up and go away.

I can think of many new things presented in just the last 3 months:

• Jennifer James's crowdfunder re: All Women Shortlists.

• #ManFriday

• Scottish Consultation and subsequent re-defining of the word "Woman" in law.

• Venice Allan & Jennifer James suspended from the Labour Party for supposed transphobia.

• "We need to Talk" House of Commons meeting and Millwall cancellation.

• Posie Parker interviewed under caution for "hate speech". WYP looking to make her a test case in law - a law where almost any statement by any person could be construed as hate speech by someone.

And some of those would definitely fall under the category of "Silencing Women".

Maggie you posted earlier in the thread saying you peaked 2 years ago. That's great for you but there are still women peaking every single day and that's why the same discussions are being had, because new people are joining in and cannot believe that what they hearing is true so naturally want to discuss it.

Need?

This is a varied chat site so the utility of the idea of 'need' is probably a bit tangential.

It's not a campaigning site, nor a consciousness-raising site, and the sheer number - assuming you have not hidden the whole topic - is conspicuous and (as those who call for a trans topic, or a lib fem topic)seen as a problem.

It's not about the merits of the idea, nor - reducto ad absurdam - silencing females. It's a comment on how people see MN as a whole.

Though course if the aim was to get people to hide FWR because of the unusually vast numbers of threads, then congrats. It's working.