To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

Hell no to a separate trans topic. This stuff needs to be talked about openly and mumsnet is one of the only places where you can do that without being shut down. Shame so many seem to find it 'boring' when there's a very real possibility they or someone they know could be affected if self id comes in. Seems like it's more of a case of "it's not affecting me yet so I don't care".

Those very women some of you think are awful and transphobic for having some very valid concerns, will be the ones sticking their heads above the parapet and potentially putting their careers and lively hoods at risk to protect the rights of all women, including yours.

No one is trying to silence the transphobia. What is suggested is that it has its own topic, so that people who don't like seeing transphobic posts in active or would like to read about other issues on the feminism board can do so, by simply hiding the topic.
The tactics used to try and indoctrinate others into hatred is a big part of why a lot of us on MN no longer want to see it. How many times last night did I have to ask to be left alone? How many accusations were made about me being a man or having some weird twitter identity?
We just don't want to look at it anymore

This post from above shouldn't be unchallenged. I suspect the writer is conflating 'discussion' with 'transphobia' If there are actually transphobic posts then report them and they will be dealt with. In the interests of honest discussion, perhaps it would be more accurate and intelligent to not lob around unfounded homophobia accusations in the hope that other uninformed people with believe you?

I wonder if the reason more women aren't bothered is because its perceived as a feminist issue, not a women's one? This would explain the paradox of women asking why there are sooo many threads, saying its obsessive, feminist boards being taken over etc.

There is NO transphobia on MN.

There is a lot of misogyny and anti women sentiment though.

If you don't like what we are talking about, YOU can bugger off. We will not shut up to make you feel more comfortable. We will not stop talking about real issues because you don't care about them. We will not accomodate your need to virtue signal and need to follow a damaging zeitgeist.
WE WILL NOT BE SILENCED.

Agree Bejazzled. I think it's important not to conflate phobia with disagreement.

So to complain about the amount of trans threads, you made another thread? Makes sense.

There is NO transphobia on MN.

How about the thread "Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?" as an example of a bit of a sweeping generalisation?

P.S. I have no doubt that some of them hate the specific women they perceive as transphobic. But then that is another thing that could be classed as transphobia. In a similar sort of way that continually misrepresenting homosexuals as hating heterosexuals would be, when in fact some of them may hate the specific heterosexuals who they perceive as homophobic.

That's not transphobia. Which btw has lost all meaning because dickheads bandy it around so much , using it to mean "anything or anyone who isn't falling over themselves to shout that transwomen are real women and how amazing that is".

NFATR is making sweeping negative assumptions about a group not prejudice? Unless if there is sufficient evidence to support it of course. And is there to say that trans identifying males hate women?

As I say, I have no doubt that some of them hate the specific women they perceive as transphobic.

twitter.com/shushingthecult

Nicole Church is trans and well worth reading.

I think there increasingly seems to be that evidence, yes, but I disagree with your characterisation altogether.

We aren't hated because we are "transphobic". We are hated for so many reasons, we are called transphobic because we won't take the hatred lying down.

The word transphobia has lost all meaning to me.

Women talking about FGM is transphobic now.

Women going on the Women's March were asked not to talk about their biology, their wombs, vaginas etc - because that is transphobic, and the March is inclusive to all "women".

Producers of period pants are referring to women as "Menstruators" now.

Have you thought that perhaps women don't want to have these terms re-defined.

For the confused... This is transphobia, "god you're a freak, you look like one too, freak, go away from me and my family or I'll get angry",

This is not transphobia,

"I have some concerns regarding self ID, I'm concerned it may affect my safety or my daughters, let's discuss it"

Here endeth the lesson......

I don’t understand. Why exactly is it transphobic to ask people to consider how self-identity laws may be misused by individuals, groups and institutions to the detriment of all women (including trans women)?

Because TRANSPHOBIA is so much easier to shout than "oh shit you might be right but then we'd have to have some awkward conversations with some of those vulnerable people and it's nicer to be nice so shush".

Why exactly is it transphobic to ask people to consider how self-identity laws may be misused by individuals, groups and institutions to the detriment of all women (including trans women)?

Because anything that is less than bootlicking, roll over and play dead handmaidening is transphobia.

NFATR I think there increasingly seems to be that evidence, yes

I'd wager that 99% of the time, any such evidence would involve some anti-trans context. The specific woman being hated will have said or done something. Whether that is duspute that they are real men/women, misgendered them, argued to exclude them from this that or the other...something.

The incidents without such a context will be thinner on the ground I'll predict.

P.S. I do actually agree that it devalues both transphoia and homophobia to use them as catch-alls for anyone who is not 100% on board with everything, but I still think they have meaning if applied to genuine displays of prejudice.

hang on a cotton picking minute JAPAB

Whether that is duspute that they are real men/women

are you actually saying that understanding that human beings can't change sex is transphobic?

A man = member of the sex class that produces sperm
A woman = member of the sex class that produces eggs and gestates young.

It is literally impossible for a woman to become a man or vice versa.

ReluctantCamper, you should know by not that the fact that you’re not willing to lie and say men are women and women are men, then you’re transphobic. How dare you not believe the mantra! You transphobe none Kool aid drinking realist you. 😉

I'd wager that 99% of the time, any such evidence would involve some anti-trans context. The specific woman being hated will have said or done something. Whether that is duspute that they are real men/women

Way to prove my point.
So if a woman dares to say that a person with a penis is a man, or dispute that they are a real woman, then they are hated and that hate is justified and its her own fault they hate her?

Telling the actual truth is a good reason to hate a woman?

The thing is, they've changed the meaning of the words. It's not about biological functions, it's about feelings.

Once you make the word "woman" mean "sexy thing to have sex with, wears makeup and dresses, likes the colour pink and giggling", then of course it's insulting to say that a man can't do those things.

So true dekfiji.

Now if someone said you're not a real man because you choose to conform to the gender stereotypes currently associated with women, that would be transphobia.

Hope that helps.

200 years ago men wore silk stockings and garters. They were still men though.

There are plenty of cultures where no-one wears pink or high heels. They still have women.

You make a good point dekfiji, but until the dictionary is updated, Transmen are not men and transwomen are not women.

I've been struggling with how to refer to transwomen and transmen. I'm not very comfortable with those words as I believe they obscure meaning. I have been using 'man who identifies as a woman', 'woman who identifies as a man'.

However I think I'm going to switch to 'man who prefers to conform to gender stereotypes associated with women'. It means precisely what it says. It's snappy right? I think it'll catch on