To think Mumsnet is OBSESSED

[AccidentalKylie]

I used to read Mumsnet because it was a lot of clever, funny women talking about stuff I was interested in, but it's become a one issue forum. It's exhausting.

Hate feels very logical when you're experiencing it. But it doesn't look logical from the outside. Making up some, at best projected, at worst imaginary, horror stories about deviants dressing up to rape us in hospitals is not logic. There's no evidence.

Agree. Boring, and worse is the vitriol so many mumsnetters direct towards transgendered people.

This is a moderated forum. Please report posts that are against the site's guidelines.

However don't confuse "I find this view point offensive and upsetting" with "this person is just being mean".

I believe the only thing that links trans women and women is their shared humanity. I don't believe anything connects women except their biology. I don't believe that 'trans women are women' because I don't know what the statement means. I am aware that this view point is very offensive to some people, but I'm not about to stop expressing it any more than I'm about to start agreeing that God exists or that abortions should be illegal.

I find the concept of gender oppressive, and don't want it to be recognised in law or public policy. On the other hand, I believe that in a limited number of areas, people who have female bodies need different services and protections to people with male bodies.

If you disagree with me, please explain why - try to persuade me that I am wrong with a logical, well thought out argument. Don't just try to shut down debate by claiming to be offended. (Not sure of the relevance of being 'bored' - other talk boards and social media outlets are available).

Hey lubey - just report your post to MN and ask for their advice on how to hide subjects.

I'm sure you can manage that. Someone so insightful that a debate on if men can biologically become women is mere phobic trivia can find 'hide' button.

Surely you don't need our help on how to hide threads, eh?

Thanks, OP, for the thread. You've just widened the issues outside of the Feminism folder.

There is also no evidence that a penis is a female sex organ Djnoun

And...the usual accusations of terrible, terrible transphobia without any evidence.

But I'm not surprised when it comes from people who want me to believe that up is down and black is white and true is false.

Many moons ago, when I first joined up MN, there would be threads just like this one - only saying that the Feminist section was "nasty" and "man-hating".

Now people don't want trans topics on the Feminist section.

I mean, would you like to police our conversation any more?? "Don't talk about this, talk about this instead! And be nice!" Always, people telling women how to do feminism.

There's plenty of room on the Feminist board for all topics affecting women. Stop trying to police us and shut us away. This is important.

Being gender critical is the way forward, let people wear what they like and pursue professionals and hobbies that suit their personalities. But do not pretend a male can ever be female and vv. FGS

100% this.

I also agree that it is gas lighting and I for one am not having any of it. I won't be brainwashed into this bullshit.

Hate feels very logical when you're experiencing it. But it doesn't look logical from the outside. Making up some, at best projected, at worst imaginary, horror stories about deviants dressing up to rape us in hospitals is not logic. There's no evidence.

People aren't specifically worried about trans people or 'deviants' in hospital wards. They are worried about unisex wards being created by default and they are worried about men.

Three more signed in my area since I started reading this thread this morning! Hope you're on here, pals 👋
You're doing God's work Accidental, haha

Making up some, at best projected, at worst imaginary, horror stories about deviants dressing up to rape us in hospitals is not logic
I've worked on mixed sex wards, the majority of patients and staff prefer single sex wards. It's a matter of privacy first and foremost, though safety is a factor at times.
The usual exceptions are high dependency units such as ICU, where the patients are monitored and staffing levels are higher.

Faux concern, bigotry disguised as rationality and a reliance on anomalies and made up anecdotes. TERFs use exactly the same tactics as the alt-right.

Writing this indicates to me Op it's not about too many trans threads it's about silence people who disagree with you.

I don't want trans thread in their own topic them being on the main boards means I've read the odd one and learnt a lot.

Only yesterday on such a thread in AIBU I learnt schools, University and workplaces and the people in them are apparently having to deal with individuals who have completely different names different days depending on how they feel about their gender that day and everyone around is expected to accommodate that .

Hating someone because of what type of person they are, and inventing devious characteristics about them, is prejudice.

It's so easy to go back to the biology answer. Ok, cool. Although, we don't necessarily know everything there is to know about the human body, and especially we know hardly anything about how the brain works. But that doesn't excuse the nonsense projections about how we're all going to be violently assaulted.

You have no evidence that these people are violent and want to rape us. You may believe it strongly based on your prejudices. But that doesn't make it a fact.

Djnoun, I can't believe* that after all this time you're still missing the point so spectacularly.

It's not about gender dysphoria. It's not about transsexuals. It's about sexual fetishists - people who evidentially ARE violent and do want to rape us - taking advantage of relaxed legislation. This is why we do not want legislation altered and sex segregation removed.

(*I can really)

Hi everyone.
First things first, we will not be deleting this thread.
We have been through it and we have deleted the posts that we consider to have broken our guidelines.
We do walk a very fine line here at MN, moderating these threads and we are content to do so in order to allow conversation to continue, but we do appreciate it when everyone keeps to the right side of the guidelines as, frankly, it makes our job a lot easier.
Peace and love, everyone.

No one is trying to silence the transphobia. What is suggested is that it has its own topic, so that people who don't like seeing transphobic posts in active or would like to read about other issues on the feminism board can do so, by simply hiding the topic.

It's not really 'transphobia' though is it. The posts are about defining the word woman and maintaining rights and protections for people with female bodies. It's difficult to know how you can discuss feminism if you can't describe what a woman is. I realise that it is very upsetting for some trans people when I say that I don't believe that a trans man is actually a man. I don't want to cause offence.

However equally I'm not about to stop talking about abortion rights because some people believe abortion is killing babies, and I don't need a 'baby hate' topic to discuss women's reproductive rights on the feminism board.

Came across this earlier. Apologies if it's been posted elsewhere. But it's good to talk

reneejg.net/2017/02/27/how-do-you-know-if-youre-transphobic-and-what-is-to-be-done-about-it/

Did anyone else notice that when the Op to a thread name changes the 'op' flag on the user list goes against their new name's @ tag?

It was news to me!

There should not be a trans board.

These issues affect women across the spectrum of age, class, race, religion and sexuality. Thus, it’s a feminist issue. And it stays in feminism, and we will continue to talk about it. Because it’s inportant

Interesting article. Thanks for posting the link, Noqontrol.

Alternatively my app is going a bit crazy

Hating someone because of what type of person they are, and inventing devious characteristics about them, is prejudice.

I'm afraid it's just about making the calculations that women make everyday when they are walking home late at night and realise that a man is walking behind them - does he seem safe? should I cross over the street? how would I defend myself if I were attacked?

Yes mylittlevespa. Nail on the head.

Djnoun nobody was bullying you last night. If anything you were the bully. The way you spoke to anyfucker last night, most people would have said you were trying to bully her. You were certainly trying to silence her and eveyone else on this thread. I doubt anyfucker really gave much of a shit. It felt a lot like you were trying to gaslight us all.

You were the only aggressive person here last night, repeatedly demanding that people who weren't even talking to you, stop talking to you. It's the most bizarre thing I've seen on mumsnet in a very long time. Maybe you thought if you threw around enough accusations of transphobia and bullying, one might stick. No such luck, because as i say the only person being aggressive was you.

We see you.

Aha! It goes to the last bookmarked poster. As you were.

It's so easy to go back to the biology answer. Ok, cool. Although, we don't necessarily know everything there is to know about the human body, and especially we know hardly anything about how the brain works. But that doesn't excuse the nonsense projections about how we're all going to be violently assaulted

A nonsense projection would be that we're going to magically grow penises if men come into the bathroom. A very real and sensible concern is that we will be attacked more frequently, one way or another, if the safeguards we have in place are removed.

Against self Id doesn't necessarily mean a person is not supportive of trans people.
Lots of us who do not support self id come at it from a safeguarding perspective.
If your opening the doors to women's spaces wide open to ANY man who says he's a woman, you can guarantee opportunistic predators will take advantage of it.

It's not like they haven't done it before, Priests, aid workers, children's homes for example.
If you make access easier for predatory men, there will be victims. And once again, those victims will be women and children. As per usual.