To think most "gifted" children are from affluent backgrounds?

[Notapushymum1]

I was reading about Alma Deutscher, a child prodigy who started composing at age 6 and had her first opera performed at age 9. She is a child prodigy who is home schooled, her parents are scholars with interest in music, she had the best teachers from age 3 and according to Wikipedia:
^^
Professor Gjerdingen recommended to Deutscher's parents the renowned Swiss improvisor Rudolf Lutz, who then connected them with the Swiss musician Tobias Cramm.[51] Gjerdingen sent exercises and commented on technical aspects of Alma’s composition, while Alma had lessons in improvisation from Cramm via Skype, with the pair using the pedagogical method of the eighteenth century Italian partimenti, instructional bass lines used for the teaching of harmony, counterpoint and improvisation.[52] Alma quickly became fluent in the music syntax of eighteenth century music

She spends 5 hours a day on music lessons from "Renowned violin and piano teachers at Yehudi Menuhin music school".

AIBU to think that most kids will become "prodigies" with such input?

I agree op I think everyone is good at something but it’s weather you have a certain input that you become great. I’m middle classed and could never afford extra lessons for anything. If she’s having 5 hours per day no wonder she’s amazing. It’s a bit too much pressure for that age IMO

PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks are there any local private schools that offer full musical scholarships?

Rigor in education isn't necessarily what gifted children need, flexibility, differentiation and creativity would probably have been more effective for my two. They both struggled in a conventional educational system. Ds could get intellectual stimulation out of reading the face of a cereal box. Dd transforms a mundane assignment into a unique endeavor.

It's to do with the family values. It's (sadly) no surprise that white working class boys perform lowest at GCSEs, even compared to EAL speakers etc. It always comes down to the family, and what it values.

If you watch videos of Alma, you will see how truly gifted she is.

If you think it’s entirely due to the parents, why is her sister Helen not “as gifted”? Helen is an extremely accomplished, lovely, clever little girl. But if it was “just” parenting, she’d be doing the same as her sister. She isn’t.

I’d also point out that the parents being scholars (not entirely sure of their exact background but anyway they are very bright and accomplished) has likely given Alma a genetic advantage over “ordinary” children.

Op why do you let this bother you? Alma is special. She is also extremely dedicated. Good luck to her. It doesn’t impact you does it?

Most kids wouldn’t become prodigies with the same input, no. Mine would be asking when it was xbox time if they’d done 5hrs of music. Mine do music and are fine at it. But they spend 15-20 mins per day.

Alma’s education was extremely specialised. Composition can be taught but usually isn’t (or not in any systematic way) until people are much older.

'Sofia, my children are doing very well musically, older ones got musical scholarships to top private schools and the younger one is very advanced musically for his age. I don't want a musical career for them anyway. I am just trying to rationalize how the parental input/income/connections affect children and are prodigies made or born?'

It's not really up to you whether they have a musical career is it.

You sound like a very pushy mum.

Also why would the best composer in the world bother instructing a little kid if they’d not seen a gift in that child?

"Outliers" is a good book and worth reading.

I think all aspects of the above are correct. Kids with talent in whichever area need

a) to have an opportunity to display that talent (poor Quim) which is why sometimes kids who are good at maths are easier to spot as it's a basic skill in UK schools, also, MFL compared to home languages,

b) need to have someone notice when they display it - teacher, present parent, extra-curricular/holiday club tutor who can then point it out

c) support to nurture and guide the talent. In most cases, yes, money will help so more comfortable families/families with fewer children will be better able to pay/ferry a child to lessons/sportsground or more willing to relocate to give a child access to a certain place/people

I think many of us can also look back at our childhoods and think 'I wish someone had given me more encouragement to start/keep up a sport/instrument/activity/hobby' but we didn't listen and/or were more interested in something else at the time.

If anyone practiced a musical instrument 5 hours a day, they'd be pretty good. I agree with that.

As someone who started 2 instruments aged 3, while some children find it easier than others, it's really about putting the hours in.

However, composing classical music at her level is a highly intellectual activity and most people simply don't have her level of ability.

Scatty, it does not bother me at all, just an example. I could be talking about Mozart instead. Same principle. My oldest DD is the most musically gifted out of 3 DC. However we noticed it quite late, never spend much on her music education. By comparison the youngest is nowhere as talented, however with all the time and money spent on him doing so well, lots of people would consider him "gifted". Maybe Alma's parents could afford time/money spent on just one child in the family? I could not afford to support musically three of them, we already spending thousands upon thousands on the youngest one and it shows a clear advantage compared to his siblings. And he can also compose unlike the older ones. Because we are paying for his composition lessons!

puffy if you read the paper, it doesn't actually demonstrate the same thing that the headline states and it seems to lack a little rigor. Obviously, having money and education will certainly help, but it's also possible to succeed without. And being a prodigy as others have said, is mostly a result of genetics, though nurture can help.

DH has family who could be classed as academically prodigious, but they are a little..different. And yes, from a long line of affluent oxbridge background. Our child has been labelled as 'gifted', but there is no way I would try to pave the same path that DH's family have for their offspring. It is far too intense & unrelenting, and not really socially the norm. But perhaps I am wrong to think like this, and if a child does have a natural interest in quantum physics, then who are we to stand in their way!

and not really socially the norm

Are social norms important? What is normal?

It depends how you define gifted.

What about Wayne Rooney? Amazingly talented footballer.

Faraday? Revolutionised science and was from a very poor family, never went to school, his mum taught him to read and he sneaked into a local book shop everyday to pore over the books.

Richard Branson? A genius entrepreneur who grew up on a council estate.

I don't think there's any prodigy without extensive coaching, and that requires resources of knowledge and sometimes money.

It also requires a kind of obsessiveness(and a toleration for drilling) on the part of the child.

Richard Branson? Council estate? He had a privileged upbringing and I suspect his dad invested in his early business ideas...

of three children of Eve Branson (née Evette Huntley Flindt; born 1924), a former ballet dancer and air hostess, and Edward James Branson (1918–2011), a barrister.[11][12] He has two younger sisters.[13] His grandfather, the Right Honourable Sir George Arthur Harwin Branson, was a judge of the High Court of Justice and a Privy Councillor.[14] Branson was educated at Scaitcliffe School, a prep school in Surrey, before briefly attending Cliff View House School in Sussex.[15]

Whoops sorry I was thinking of Alan Sugar

Genius? Branson?

I think time spent on spotting, nurturing and developing a subject ( see the book outliers previously mentioned) is very important. An investment in those things may be a lot easier to do if you are from a more affluent background. I know lots of children who have done very well due to invested adults. Time on a subject can make lots of children advanced in that area.

Well yes I think a person can be a genius in one area and a bloody idiot in general. See my Wayne Rooney example

On the whole, geniuses or prodigies can be very socially inept and struggle to fit in and have relationships.

I think there has to be a supportive "someone" to spot the talent and push it in the right direction, but not necessarily a parent.

I'm thinking of a class mate years ago who was definitely not privileged in any way but a form teacher picked up just how brilliant she was at maths. The last I heard of her, she had left Cambridge and was at MIT on a full scholarship.

Yikes, I just listened to the slow movement of Alma’s piano concerto.

Wow!

So, yes, she has been steeped in a tradition that most people (including violin and piano prodigies) never learn.

But she understands it so well. It’s beautiful.

I suspect that if she’d been orphaned/switched at birth she’s be a singer-songwriter on guitar.

Wonderful stuff. Go Alma!

Ha remember seeing Branson mother interviewed - extremely plummy I don't think she has ever been near a council estate

Sadly I think society is getting less mobile. Look at actors all those old Etonian/public school group, Tom Hiddleston, Redmayne, Dominic West, Emma Watson. Julie Walters said recently she didn't think her or Victoria Wood would have made it now coming from modest non show biz northern backgrounds.