to be pissed off that I'm being charged for the snow days

[DefinatelyNotAPooTroll]

Children's nursery closed for the 2 snow days a couple of weeks ago and nursery have made the decision to charge for those days.

I feel really pissed off as I had to take unpaid leave + make time back in lieu.

I have two under three so it's not bloody cheap either!!

Apart from this I couldn't be happier with them. It's a wonderful nursery. They're worth every penny we pay them but I'm really naffed off they charged for this!

I'm being unreasonable, aren't I?

Just mentioned this to a friend in a phone call ( yes I know, we're old fashioned and actually phone not message). She said her exercise class was cancelled twice, the first time the teacher just cancelled it, the second time she messaged everyone asking if they could get there or not, then cancelled it because they all said no. ( Rural area, all had to drive). Police advise was not to drive and all schools shut. So the teacher is saying they have to pay for both, they can make up the first week by doing an extra class whenever she has space in one, but the second week she didn't cancel so tough. There is no way she could have got there herself the second week.

I agree with persiancatlady.

They’re a business and if they can’t open and deliver the service you paid for then you shouldn’t pay.

If I’ve booked a hotel and it cancels my booking I don’t pay, if I’d have booked cinema tickets and they closed due to the snow I’d expect a full refund. Same for any other attraction or service!!

I don’t know why nurseries get held in this higher regard!

Dungeondragon15 I dare say my self-employed dog walker will not charge me or any of her other clients for those days but as I got paid myself by my employer, it would seem hypocritical for me not to pay for the services that I had booked in exactly the same weather conditions. It is not because I am confused about what self-employed versus employed means - it's not necessary to patronise me.

The fact that you think it hypocritical for you not to pay a self employed person because you are paid by your employer as an employee suggests you don't understand the difference actually.

What awful luck that you have clearly only used poor quality childcare settings in the past.

It doesn't matter as it has made zero difference to their long term education.

The fact that you think it hypocritical for you not to pay a self employed person because you are paid by your employer as an employee suggests you don't understand the difference actually.

Actually it suggests she’s a decent human being.

Actually it suggests she’s a decent human being.

So you think those who don't pay self employed people if they are not providing services are "not decent human beings". I am self employed and I charge enough per hour to take into account sick days, holidays, snow days etcs. Obviously there is a risk in doing that e.g. if I am sick for a long period of time but that is recognised disadvantage of being self employed. There are obviously many advantages though and I don't think anyone who doesn't pay me if I don't work is not "decent"

My exercise class was cancelled as teacher could not get there (I could).

She offered either an extra class, an alternative class, or the equivalent cost discounted off next term's class, all of which I thought was very reasonable.

My cleaner was unable to get to a client because of the snow yesterday, so she asked if she could swap days with me as my house is easier to get to. This was also fine by me.

There are many ways to swing a cat.

@Dungeondragon15 I feel like we are going round in circles now. I want to pay her because I felt that that the circumstances were out of her control and I feel it's important to look after people that do a good job for you. I don't have to, when she took the decision to become self-employed she took those risks on board too. But I value her and see no harm in making the odd gesture to make that clear. Why be a tightarse if you don't have to be?

I feel like we are going round in circles now. I want to pay her because I felt that that the circumstances were out of her control and I feel it's important to look after people that do a good job for you. I don't have to, when she took the decision to become self-employed she took those risks on board too. But I value her and see no harm in making the odd gesture to make that clear. Why be a tightarse if you don't have to be?

I'm not suggesting that you shouldn't pay someone if that's what you want to do though so I'm not sure why you are defending that. I am criticising you for implying that those who don't are tight arse or suggesting that they are "hypocritical" for not paying a self-employed person if they were paid as employees.

I don't think you should have to pay.

I teach in a private school and we never close for snow etc. Officially this is because we have boarders and resident staff so might as well also be open for any day children whose parents want to bring them. But unofficially it's also because if we said we were closed we would have to refund the fees for those days and our business manager obviously doesn't want to do that!

I also don't think it's necessarily the case that the nursery will still have staff costs to pay. If the OP had to take unpaid time off due to the nursery being closed then it makes sense that the nursery staff were also having to take unpaid time off. Does anybody still get paid if they make the decision not to work? I'm fairly sure I wouldn't but I live locally so I don't know for sure. I just assumed that those of my colleagues who choose not to come in are on unpaid leave but maybe I'm wrong. Different if the nursery decides to close for a reason other than not having enough staff coming in to make it possible of course. Depends who initiated the closure, the staff or the manager.

I don't think I would judge someone else for not paying their self-employed worker because I wouldn't know enough about their personal situation to make that judgement. But I would feel tight if I didn't in my specific financial position, knowing full well there have been many times I have benefited from them in various ways where things weren't as cut and dried as just looking at the contract, or the terms and conditions, or what I was obliged to do. I can only speak of my own direct experience of this kind of thing. I understand that everyone comes to this from a different perspective.

I don't think I would judge someone else for not paying their self-employed worker because I wouldn't know enough about their personal situation to make that judgement.

Where or not you know their circumstances, I can't see any situation where it would be appropriate to "judge" someone for not paying a self-employed person who is not providing a service for whatever reason.

Good for you!

As a small business offering kids extracurricular classes, if I cannot offer the class I either refund or carry over the payment to next term. If the class is running parents pay, whether they come to it or not. This includes illness, snow etc. Working on this basis I think op should not have been charged, especially if there is nothing in the contract about it.

Unless they are being run as a not for profit, I feel like most nursery owners could put their hands in their pocket for those snow days. Of course you must pay the staff - who are often on minimum wage for one of the most important jobs in the world but the owners didn’t provide the service that day. Legally of course it’s all about the contract.

I bet they didn't pay their staff for those two days. So by charging you they've made more money. Worth asking the staff I think?

All of my children’s clubs offered a credit! Don’t know about nursery’s though...Although having said that if I was available as a childminder I charged if not I didn’t and they weren’t available....

When I worked in a nursery we would offer sessions in lieu to those that wanted them. It obviously can be tricky though finding a session which is useful to you and the nursery has availability.

I understand your frustration, but that is normal. I still have to pay the nursery and school fees, the nursery and school still has all the overheads to pay. I dont agree with you having to take unpaid leave though - surely this would count as a domestic emergency and therefore have to get some sort of pay, like when you are sick? I think your employer is being unreasonable - as well as you. Sorry!

I don't see how they can charge you for a service they didn't provide? They were unavailable that day therefore should not be charging. Otherwise what's to stop them closing whenever they feel like it and continuing to charge you? I'd be seeking written clarification regarding what happens on days they choose not to provide the service you're paying for.

There’s no way they didn’t pay their staff if they chose to close, by the way - that would be against the law! I know the staff at my son’s nursery got paid still, so would be shocked if other nurseries didn’t pay their staff!

YANBU - they decided to close it shouldn’t be your problem.

I get they have to pay staff (I’m in business myself so I know too well the cost of staff) but that cost should be on them! They just have to suck it up - it’s part of the risk of being in business, you take it along with the perks

so if the roof blew off the nursery or it lost it's water supply & it couldn't open would you all be happy to pay ?

No. YANBU. They didn't provide the service that they are charging you for. Not their fault, but I don't see how they can charge for that, especially when you were bearing the resultant costs and inconvenience.

I wouldn't pay. If it's nursery's choice to close then no i wouldn't. If they closed a bit earlier then yes I would but they aren't providing the service that you are paying for. That's like booking an appointment somewhere and them cancelling you'd expect it to be rearranged not pay again for another appointment. When I worked in a nursery we had to close because of a gas leak. The staff were expected to stay but the kids got their money back for that day