To want a home birth?

[InMemoryOfSleep]

I’m not pregnant (yet), but chatting to my mum and some friends recently I mentioned I’d like a home birth next time. Their reactions weren’t positive, to say the least - despite me explaining that, for a 2nd baby, home birth is as safe as an MLU, and both are safer than a hospital. They’ve made me really doubt myself - having read the research and stats I was convinced it’s the best option, but am I missing something?!

My labour went from a low risk one in hospital to being surrounded by doctors and an emergency c section in a matter of minutes. If I'd planned a home birth my baby would in all likelihood have died and maybe me too.

This can created unnecessary medical invention leading to complications

Or there might actually be an issue. Are you against machines as well now Twitle?

There seems to be always something to blames, eg baby got stuck because mum was relaxed, baby got this because mum wasn't scrubbing floors in lead up, baby had this because not monitored.

Actually birth and labour is a very dangerous time for mother and baby. Things go wrong because they just go wrong.

Or porgs with one to one care from the start of labour at home the issue would have been picked up earlier and all would have been calmer. Honestly if you are at home they are so much more careful for exactly that reason.

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/aug/12/midwives-to-stop-using-term-normal-birth

Midwives are to end their campaign for “normal births” and change the way they talk about childbirth in a move intended to avoid making mothers who opt for medical interventions feel like failures.

*The Royal College of Midwives (RCM) has run an initiative since 2005 encouraging expectant mothers to give birth without medical interventions including epidurals, inductions and caesareans.

*It found that midwives, calling themselves “the musketeers”, contributed to unsafe deliveries due to their desire to see the women give birth without medical interventions “at any cost”.

Their relationship with doctors at the trust was described as “seriously dysfunctional” with reports of midwives neglecting to alert doctors in time about patient complications*

You likely wouldn't have got the choice of a ELCS here. I was a twin pregnancy, classed as moderately high risk throughout and then more so because one was footling breech position. ELCS wasn't an option they'd even discuss...

Then ask to be referred to someone who will, and say it’s giving you nightmares, panic attacks, insomnia and that you feel like you’re awaiting your death.

They’re not allowed to refuse on that. They have to refer to someone who will do it. Mine was classed as mental health because I said vaginal birth would give me anxiety (which is true).

Things go wrong because they just go wrong.

And how well they are dealt with depends entirely on the quality, and availability, of the staff dealing with it.

Sadly there's a dire shortage of good quality midwives because the government and NHS bosses treat them like shit and work them to the bone.

violette that sheds a lot of light on your views. We are all shaped by our experiences.

My first birth was in hospital. It started with an induction and ended with a crash c section under GA. It was very far from an 'ideal' birth.

The consultant was wonderful and made some quick decisions that may have made all the difference to our outcome. However, it was the midwife who spotted the problems we were in, when everything looked hunky dory on the outside. And that made the biggest difference of all.

Interestingly that same midwife would have been able to spot these issues in we'd been at home (not that that was a possibility). And timing was not an issue in my case, there were several hours between the midwife first alerting the doctor to the decision being taken to go to surgery.

Like you, I had a fabulous recovery from a c section, which is probably in part why I'm pushing for an elective now (7 months pregnant). Actually part of that is not wanting to labour in a hospital and face the uncertain care that might go along with that.

Actually part of that is not wanting to labour in a hospital and face the uncertain care that might go along with that.

That was part of it for me too. The uncertainty of it terrifies me.

If there were more hospitals closer to homes, better transfer times and better staffing, I’d be fine with homebirth and not as wary of it. Where I live, you’re 25 minutes from hospital. DS didn’t have 10 minutes let alone any more!

Then ask to be referred to someone who will, and say it’s giving you nightmares, panic attacks, insomnia and that you feel like you’re awaiting your death.

They’re not allowed to refuse on that. They have to refer to someone who will do it. Mine was classed as mental health because I said vaginal birth would give me anxiety (which is true).

I'm really glad you got what you needed. Really I am, all women should get that.

However, not all women get those options. Refer you on where? The maternity hospital and MLU are it, and the MLU don't do ELCS. They may not be allowed but when they refuse to discuss it, when PALS are hopeless and you are getting further and further on in pregnancy your choices are very limited. You can't force them to book you in...

Then when you end up in the hospital, in labour, and are repeatedly told "someone will be there in a minute" and a LONG time later only the fact your baby is crowning gets them to move your choices are non-existent. And that is something that people need to realise. Maternity choices don't actually exist in lots of areas, not truly.

Snowmagedon literally just going off stats and evidence with that one there

Never said I was against medical intervention if required but there is many times it isn't and has caused complications which is why the risk level is same for homebirth and hospital births.

However, not all women get those options. Refer you on where? The maternity hospital and MLU are it, and the MLU don't do ELCS. They may not be allowed but when they refuse to discuss it, when PALS are hopeless and you are getting further and further on in pregnancy your choices are very limited. You can't force them to book you in...

That’s shocking. And I’m fairly sure illegal, you’d have a good case there. I have several lawyers in my family and I was ready to threaten with a case if they refused but luckily they did not, and I had no fight.

What they’re supposed to do is refer you to a consultant who will, so if that one won’t do it a colleague will. Did you not get to choose the hospital? I had about 9, but I live near a large city and appreciate not everyone does.

I’d seriously complain in your case, that’s absolutely not acceptable.

Not everyone lives in a City Violette. In some rural areas the only hospital is 50 or more miles away. So, refer to where? I agree that if you are a genuine high risk then a referral elsewhere and a stay away from home around the time of deliver may be the best option, but we are not talking about high risk cases.

That’s very true. I’m lucky I suppose to live in an area that does have the choice. Another reason to never move away!

When I was refereed to meet consultant to talk about a planned ELC I was waiting in a Q with Two consultants working, I did loads of research and basically came to conclusion was was a bitch and hard and cold and the other was trained in Birth Trauma and far more open. I could have got either one of them.

Luckily I got the one trained in BT which states it doesn't matter if you had a so called text book labour if you were traumatized YOU WERE TRAUMATIZED. So in that case....had I got the other consultant she may not have listened to me in the same way.

( which is how head mw also listened to me , ie no interest in how i felt emotionally after the birth!)

So I think try and do research on the consultants....and sort of put the issue over to them, write to people higher up in the hospital if necessary, as last resort your MP! Make a fuss.
I think all consultants and indeed MW should have some sort of training with the BT association and learn to view women as whole people and not just a pair of birthing hips.

That’s shocking. And I’m fairly sure illegal, you’d have a good case there. I have several lawyers in my family and I was ready to threaten with a case if they refused but luckily they did not, and I had no fight.

What they’re supposed to do is refer you to a consultant who will, so if that one won’t do it a colleague will. Did you not get to choose the hospital? I had about 9, but I live near a large city and appreciate not everyone does.

I’d seriously complain in your case, that’s absolutely not acceptable.

I did complain. Loudly, and "won" but the apology didn't change anything as I'd given birth by then and there were bigger issues afoot with the actual care when I was in labour. They just don't have enough staff to give proper care. my girls are now 15 - the problem is even worse now than it was then. Not even the midwife who lives in my street gave birth there!

No, there's no choice of hospital here. We're rural-ish. Not massively so. There's just one stupidly big hospital with everything in one place. There was a second hospital (where the MLU is), but it's lost pretty much all it's services a bit at a time. There's now a MLU, a minor injuries unit that's closed more than it's open and a few clinics. It had a few more services then, but not maternity.

My consultant was specifically trained in mental health. I think the fact I have Asperger’s went in my favour maybe? As I argued the planned nature vs uncertainly might cause a huge meltdown in the middle of labour.

Actually part of that is not wanting to labour in a hospital and face the uncertain care that might go along with that

This was also one of the main reason for my ELC in the end when I was swinging between a HB< the lovely new birthing unit at the hospital which looked like 5 * hotel and ELC.
The hospital frequently shut its doors to women in labour so there was no guarantee I wold get into the new shiny birth unit.

For HB although I was very tempted there was still no cast iron guarantee I would have a safe and good birth. Our hospitals are too far away and I knew I would never want to be physically moved in emergency and it was too far to go.

the ELC guaranteed me a few things including the above and cut down the chance element.

Violette I think maybe you should try and understand that it is your birth experience that's unusual. You obviously had an exceptionally high standard of care. That is not normal. I have 5 biological children, 4 births and that standard of care is simply not the norm sadly.

sorry La - I thought you were trying to get help now! I didn't read your post properly!

I did have a good standard to be honest. It was like being in a hotel, once we were assured DS was fine obviously.

I feel quite sad that many women do not get that experience.

@Violetta- 'stinging fanny?'

On the more macro level discussion there's not much point in sharing individual experiences, but during my first labour the midwife pinned me down and tried to give me an episiotomy while I screamed at her that I did not consent (she was told to back off by a doctor who came in, my opinion didn't matter). My very small baby was coming out like a freight train and I didn't even have a graze. If she'd managed to do it then I would have had a 'stinging fanny' and all the associated problems and followups. If she hadn't been an under-trained bank midwife who contravened just about every hospital and RCM guideline during that labour then the hospital would have avoided an escalation in that labour, I would have had a quicker discharge and they would have saved a lot of money; I wouldn't still have flashbacks.

It was a mismanaged labour from start to finish which was a result of the midwives not having the time to listen to me when I told them I was in transition (I dilated 7 cm in an hour) which could have been done in the MLU had they listened in the first place and then not panicked that the baby was in distress because she was arriving much faster than 'official timings'.

Second labour at home, fantastic 1-2-1 and then 2-2-1, no internals, delivered a baby 3lb larger, quickly, with no issues, tears or grazes. Pelvic floor intact.

For me, the way to avoid those birth injuries was to sidestep the hospital second time round.

'Hospital' is not the factor. Good midwifery is. And that's being decimated by government policy. A cynic would say that that's because it's women's health, and that's less important in policy.

I also really recommend reading Rebecca Schiller's 'All that matters' for those interested in human rights in childbirth. It's a great exploration of these issues (and is, yes, also very supportive of ELCS).

My consultant was specifically trained in mental health.

So Violetta it sounds as though there were factors which meant that yours wasn't entirely a low risk pregnancy. So you haven't really got a lot to contribute to a thread about home births for low risk women, have you? Hearing about how wonderful a hospital is for women with risk factors, isn't very helpful in advising the woman who isn't going to get the 'silver service' or whatever their hospital calls the service for women with risk factors.

Having said that, some women with 'high risk' pregnancies would prefer a home birth, but I think they are a decided minority of home birthers.

I did have a good standard to be honest. It was like being in a hotel, once we were assured DS was fine obviously.

I feel quite sad that many women do not get that experience.

Can I suggest, respectfully, that you think about that before you start making comments about people who make birth choices different to yours in future please?

Your experience should be normal, but it's not. It's really, really not. I only know 2 people who have ever described an experience as good as yours. One was a midwife who worked with her sister on the same ward and her cousin (might have been Aunt) was the consultant. The other spent £££££ on a private birth.

It's far more common to have a lack of staff and things that sound small and niggly, but actually cause a nightmare - no-one tells you breakfast is served in the day room, you give birth after 10pm having been in labour all day and there's not even a slice of bread to be found to make you toast, there's so few staff on the ward buzzers just buzz and buzz and buzz making sleep almost impossible - and that's just things that won't actually physically harm you or your child.

So Violetta it sounds as though there were factors which meant that yours wasn't entirely a low risk pregnancy.

What risk? There was no risk to me or the baby. I asked for a consultant because I said a vb would cause anxiety.