Who is being unreasonable - joint finances

[namechange59295]

Namechanged for this but regular poster.

Please help me work out whether I am being unreasonable, or whether my husband is being unreasonable (I think he is, obviously!).

I'll try to make his as succinct as possible. Been with my DH for 8 years, married for 18 months, DS1 is 7.5 months. DH bought the house we live in when we had been together for 2 years, large cash deposit, small mortgage. I moved in and paid a reduced rent until the mortgage was cleared (approx. 3 years). I have then lived there for free ever since. The justification for this which we both agreed to was that I had to move around an hour from my friends, family and work to allow him to continue to run his business, which would obviously benefit us both in the future. His friends, family and hobbies are on his doorstep (literally, we can see his parents house and the rugby field from our windows!). I hate the town we live in, but we plan to move out of town in the next couple of years and as I have made lots of friends in the wider area I am happy with this prospect, although ultimately I would prefer to move back to where I grew up and where my family are.

So, mortgage is paid off and we both have significant savings, however he has about 3 times what I have. I believe his ability to save has been partly facilitated by me because by moving to his area I have allowed our relationship to continue and him to pursue his professional desires. Of course he has also saved very hard and worked very hard for that money. I have explained this part of our financial situation not to be goady, but I don't want to drip feed and I do think this is relevant to my AIBU.

Since moving in together we have paid into a joint account for food, bills, council tax etc etc. Basically everything that's needed to keep the house running. I have just stopped receiving maternity pay but have been paying in as normal until now. Agreement is that I will stay at home with DS1 because my commute to work means I would work for about £25 per day once we have paid for childcare. We have always been of the understanding that we would both prefer for me to be at home with the children for a certain amount of time whilst they are young and that was a large part of the reason we have settled in DH's area. All discussed and agreed years ago.

I do all of the housework, so cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing, food shopping, bins, recycling, night feeds etc. plus all those other little things like buying birthday presents, cards etc. He does bath and bed with DS 5 nights a week. He plays rugby twice a week and all day on a Saturday, with the occasional night out afterwards (not regular, say once every 2 months or so). He has a lie in at the weekend on both days while I get up with DS.

I have always said that I would prefer our savings to be held jointly, with a direct debit into an account for household stuff and then an equal allowance each for spending money. He has always said that he will just top up our existing joint account as needed. We are both relatively good with money so whilst I'm not really comfortable with this, in theory it should work as long as we are both reasonable.

With regards to our savings, we are both saving for a property investment, so in that sense our intentions for the savings are mutual. He obviously has a great deal more than I do at present, but my parents will be giving us a significant (approx £175k) sum to purchase said property when we find it so he will then benefit from my/their investment. Basically what I am trying to say is that we are on a fairly level playing field once all is taken into consideration.

Fast forward to today. We are looking after his parents dog for a few days while they are away. I took her for a run on the beach this morning and it was lovely down there so I bought a coffee in the cafe and sat outside for a bit longer. The coffee cost £1.50. DH has told me that I should take my own coffee in a flask because buying a coffee out is a waste of money. He says that if I was out for a walk with a friend and we went into the coffee shop that's fine because it's being sociable. I think that considering he disappears for 2 evenings a week plus most of Saturday week in week out (and there is a cost of say £20 a week for this) I should be allowed to buy a bloody coffee every now and then if I want one! I'm not one of these people who walks around with a costa permanently attached to my hand, I hardly ever buy drinks or food out. My social commitments are a buggy fitness group once or twice a week (£4 a time), baby sensory (£5 a week) and slimming world (£5 a week). I then go for a walk with a group of mums once a week and we have a coffee afterwards. This mornings coffee doesn't usually happen, it's only because I was down there with his parents dog and I just fancied a coffee because it was really nice there today. He is saying that if I had been with someone else it would have been fine because it's being sociable. I argued that if his hobby was cycling or running which he might do by himself I would still be happy for him to pursue it, it just so happens that he plays rugby and that is a team sport.

This next bit is the important bit.

He then said that he is spending his money when he does things, and I am spending our money. My argument is that all of the money is our money, including he money that my parents have promised me for the property purchase** whenever that happens.

I think this statement completely summarises his attitude towards me being a stay at home mum and whilst he is happy for me to do so, he is going to want me to account for every last penny I spend because as far as he is concerned, I am not the one who went out and earned it. I also think that this shows he does not value anything I do in the home and whilst I am happy to do it and appreciate that I am fortunate to be able to stay at home, I do not think that attitude is fair.

Well done if you are still reading - I am happy to be told I am unreasonable if I am and in which case I need to start grovelling after the argument we've just had. If I am not being unreasonable and he is being financially controlling, then I am just disappointed in myself for being so stupid as to think we were on the same wavelength.

Thank you.

Being a SAHM means sacrificing your career and earning power. Fine if you have a husband who sees his salary as joint family income but yours obviously does not. Glad you are making him view this differently.

Well done OP and good luck. Stick to your guns! I bet his mind is in overdrive now reassessing the position and hopefully shitting himself that you might actually leave him and how much worse that would be.
There might be a chance things can turn around if he had just been thoughtless/assuming rather than genuinely chauvinistic.

Well done op!

Good point about going to the meeting with the accountant with him. Unfortunately, it looks like you'll need to keep a fairly careful eye on him when it comes to money.

Make sure he doesn't bullshit about with the joint savings - tax implications sounds like a convenient excuse.

Start demanding the same down time as him too and a lie in.

I agree get a job, get a pension, start saving. Do not take the money from your parents. Charge him half the nursery fee. If you are married do you have joint access to view all accounts/money ? His mutterings about tax is a red herring, if you look on HMRC website or Gov website you can see how much each person can earn without paying tax via employment. Then you can look how much interest you can earn each year per person without paying tax. I would suggest that you look after number one eg yourself and stop relying on a man ! If you rent out a property, you have to pay tax on the income or declare to HMRC if below tax. Everything is easy to do and research !

Suggest that you need to take control of your life and money and therefore your future

Apologies, check if you have savings, how much interest you can earn before you start paying tax. I think you can earn £1000 in interest before paying tax per person. You would need to self declare to HMRC. The numbers increase/decrease per year. Also, you would need to have a huge amount of savings to get £1000 in interest, because the saving rates are currently very poor. Money saving expert website is a good place to look

If the tax issue is confusing, suggest all savings should be in your name as a non tax payer....☺

As he is a higher rate tax payer he only has up to £500 tax free.

I suggested all the savings be in my name as well @handmademitlove !

Great idea re savings - if he really is concerned about tax, he should jump on that.

Of course, he's not really concerned about tax, is he?

Do you know the all park of his savings? If he has an accountant and they are talking tax implications ( when you can save I think circa £20,000 in various ISAs tax free a year-long please check Government website) he could have a lot. If he has a lot can you make it so that your parents match his savings and this is used for a property in joint names. Ensure he pays into pension scheme for you and that you receive child benefit ( even if he earns over the £60,000 cut off) this is so you get your NI contributions.

If in UK tax per person per year
www.gov.uk/guidance/rates-and-thresholds-for-employers-2018-to-2019

Tax on one person savings
www.gov.uk/apply-tax-free-interest-on-savings

More info here
www.taxation.co.uk/Articles/2017/11/28/337301/income-tax-allowances-and-nic-rates-2018-19

If you own a second property you may need to pay higher stamp duty.
If you rent it out you would need to declare the income to HMRC via self assessment, whether you pay tax or dont pay .

Awesome! Follow up on the tax. If he pulls 'the accountant said it will cost more in tax and it's better if it stays in my name' you say, 'We can afford the tax now I'm working FT.'

Do NOT take on all the mental load. You are already ringing round nurseries. This is the assumption it's your job to deal with childcare. It's 50% his as you are both working FT. You have a long commute, so next conversation is who will do pick up and drops off and sick days.

'We need to schedule a time to discuss how we'll split all the work in the house.' 'Oh, can't we just do it as and when?' If he pulls that, you stop doing *anything for him, even if you're buying yourself ready meals for dinner every night. 'Why didn't you cook?' 'We don't have an agreement in place so hey, everyone for herself!' Sorting it means, again, the assumption that the mental load is yours as well as FT work.

And no, it's not petty. It's how you have to deal with an inherently selfish person who believes being married is a get out of life except work ticket.

Do NOT get pregnant again to this man unless he does a 180, no matter how much you may want it.

He still doesn't understand the meaning of partnership.

Later ( if you both wish) you could work for his company ( if appropriate) then max out your income tax allowance and maybe both get paid just under the ( for example 40 percent income tax bracket). That way your child benefit would not be claimed back in yearly tax assessments either. I am at a loss to how it is any (tax)benefit having savings etc in one name ( esp higher rate tax payer). The only benefit maybe in a pension when he can get income tax refunded ( within certain limits).

My other question would be to yourself. You said that you moved in and paid reduced rent for 3 years until the mortgage was clear. Why did he not let you NOT pay towards the mortgage, but just pay half of the utility bills and half food ? Because the mortgage would not have increased if you moved in. However, the bills would have increased. I hope that you did not pay him a massive amount every month, because that is money that you could have saved for yourself !

His savings are approx £85k at the moment. Because he's a director his savings pot can jump quite dramatically quite quickly when dividends are paid.

We've just been out for a drive and a coffee () and have been chatting it over. I can tel he still views it as his money not ours and I will keep reiterating my point until I am convinced. I have been discussing the finer details of me going back to work and it is quite clear that he doesn't want me to. That's fine but things need to change.

For example, I need a new car. We're not talking anything flashy because I'm not bothered about having a flashy car, I reckon I need about £10k to get something practical and decent. I am saying that if it comes out of 'his' pot of our savings, all the better because then he won't have to pay tax on the interest that £10k is worth. He failed to present an argument against that because he agreed that 'his' and 'my' savings are in fact ours.

I have to admit I'm not a tax buff but I have suggested recently (before all this) that we need to see a financial advisor to get things in order. I've added that to the list of people to ring on Monday.

He paid for the coffee by the way, out of our money

Also, just to be clear I'm aware that the tax thing is probably a complete load of rubbish!

I don’t even know where to begin. YANBU.

I am amazed that there are women who live like this. So does he pay you time and a half when you do weekend childcare for HIS son? Why aren’t you sharing the weekend lie ins? He sees you as the (unpaid) childminder. You both work full time in the week. You are taking care of your joint child which you both AGREED would be your job. Weekends should be 50/50 as should all family money that you are obviously facilitating him earning.

As I said I’m a bit speechless that people live like this.

'I have been discussing the finer details of me going back to work and it is quite clear that he doesn't want me to. That's fine but things need to change.'

Of course he doesn't want you to, you facilitate his life in every way. Nothing's changed for him at all except a bath time and bed time a few nights a week. It would be utter folly to give up your financial independence for an inherently selfish person. Things won't change because he hasn't, what his is his. Imagine a lifetime of constantly battling it out over life's essentials because he's niggardly with 'his' money? Imagine doing that for the rest of your life.

@yoyo1234 it would be appropriate for me to work for his company as we're both in the same profession. However in light of what's happened now I'm not sure that I want to.

The company I work for is a massive multinational, good opportunities if you want them, good pension etc. I've pointed out to him today that I'm no longer prepared to give all those benefits up.

So you can put 20k into a tax free ISA this year and he can put 20k tax free into an ISA this year. The other savings could be split between you and him, so that you pay less tax on the interest that is earnt, or pay more into his or a pension each

Thanks @Twelve1212 - are there any restraints about taking that money beach out of the isa?

Sorry - back, not beach

I can tel he still views it as his money not ours

I would tell him if you were to divorce tomorrow it would be seen as marital assets and you would get half....but I bet he's one of those wankers that would very suddenly 'hide' savings

Some ISAs allow you to take the money out in that year, but you cannot add the money back in, you would have to wait until the next year when you could add another 20k each