To genuinely wonder how or why anyone believes in God?

[ChaosNeverRains]

Genuine question.

I was until fairly recently I think probably agnostic rather than anything else, having been brought up in a very church oriented school where the emphasis was all on sin and retribution and the need to worship this higher being and that if you lived every day then it was through God’s will - you get the picture. Until recently though I was prepared to believe that perhaps there was a higher being out there somewhere, and even now I can see that some could believe that there is a higher being out there or that there was at some point.

But what I don’t understand is why people seem to believe that there is a God who looks over them individually when everything points to that not being the case. People talk about the power of prayer when actually no such power exists. The man dying of cancer is no more or less likely to die if you prayed for him than if you didn’t. I know of some very devout Christians who have fallen victim to the most horrific illnesses and where the church have genuinely believed that praying for them means God will heal them, which of course he hasn’t. But when they die those same people are thought to be up there eternally worshipping the lord. Why?

I can see that a belief in God might somehow make people feel comforted that this isn’t the only life we will have, but what I can’t see is that a God who allows the amount of bad and suffering that goes on in the world, even on an individual level should be so worshipped. If a father treated his children in the way that the supposed Heavenly Father treats his, no-one would want anything to do with him. Yet worshippers of a God go to all and any lengths to ensure that they continue to do things in the name of the father and to not upset him for fear of the retribution they will receive.

I’m not one for dismissing belief as believing in the fairies and what-not (with the possible exception of the dinosaur deniers,) but I am becoming more and more curious as to how it is that people can believe in this individual God and actually believe that it is true when there is no evidence to suggest anything of the sort.

PS: I am talking about any and all religion not just one. My thought process being that if there were one God it would be the same God whether you are Christian muslim or Jewish but that the scriptures are defined by humans to make for the individual religions.

"It annoys me how the change over to patriarchy created this male god. Ugh"

There have always been male gods. Always.

I’ve often wondered this and I don’t think you’ll ever get one definitive answer but the most obvious reason is that people find it comforting, for example that their loved ones will be waiting for them, and they don’t have to face up to the consequences of their actions, it’s “God’s will”

I repeat for the hard of thinking...

Atheism is the absence of faith. Yes, it is.

The dictionary defintion is “disbelief or lack of belief in God or gods”. In every day parlance, “faith” when connected with religion is used to describe a belief in a god or gods.

Therefore, atheists cannot possibly have faith. We are simply unpersuaded by religious arguments and as a result lack the belief and/or faith that theists do.

And (sigh) lacking a belief is not remotely the same thing as active belief.

I lack a belief in extra-terrestrial life as I have no evidence that such beings exist. But I most certainly would not say that I actively believe they don’t. Based on what?

Same with “god”. I will say that I actively believe the Christian/Muslim (et al) gods don’t exist as it’s close to impossible that it/they could. My position is not based on “faith”....it’s based on the evidence of how our universe works, amongst other things.

When you have evidence, you don’t need the excuse of “faith”.

And to the “atheist” who thinks my position is “nonsense” because she, as an “atheist” has faith in lots of things.....the word “faith” has different usages. Since I was clearly referring to religious faith, I have no idea what point you think you’re making.

Yes, of course. But it wasnt ever 'just' a male god holding all the power outside of human reach.

If we go back before Greece and Roman etc way way back it was largely feminine based, we have birth and created after all.

I believe there is a source/soul/existence/god, some words to try and decribe it. This thing that is in everyone and everything. I think religion has turned so many away from spirituality which is a shame. Spiritual beings having a human experience, what I believe we truly are.

Puzzledandpissedoff

What does reincarnation have to do with the problem of evil?

In any event, present some evidence that reincarnation is an actual thing before you assert that it’s an “answer”.

Believing in God maybe a legal choice but any child raised in religious house, brought up in certain religion does have that element of choice taken away.
Children want to emulate and be like their parents and please them and trust them. In all matters.

Dc brought up by extreme lefty parents will have that imparted into their bones...

I have hosted a few students from religion, parents led bible classes.. They attribute everything back to God. Everything it's astonishing to bear witness too. They have not had any choice at all. They are... Brain washed!

its funny though, this drive for life. Like what's that all about?

I suppose that's how you end up believing in god.

Very interesting read OP.

I used to be agnostic, but the older I get (and the more cynical I get!) I think I’m more atheist.

I find it difficult to comprehend that some of my very intelligent friends go to church and believe in God. It seems so illogical and improbable to me. But I respect their beliefs completely. Each to their own.

I wish I did have faith, it must be nice to have a ‘reason’ for all the bad stuff, but I think the world is just shit sometimes.

God/religion was an ancient way for the human race to explain "impossible" things, such as the creation of the human race, before science.
How anyone can disregard science in place of a magical being is actually baffling to me.
My DM, however, does believe in God and her explanation for all the pain and suffering in the world is that we are all currently in Hell.

What does reincarnation have to do with the problem of evil?

I didn't refer to evil, just suggested an answer as to why "God allows suffering" ... but yes, to a believer in reincarnation, evil deeds are also things which eventually have to be paid for in order to learn and move forward, whether that happens this life or a future one

I freely admit I can't "prove" this any more than I suspect those with different beliefs can "prove" theirs. However I recommend anyone with an enquiring mind at least looking into the subject and perhaps even considering whether its tenets work for them

No. As a child, I wanted to, but struggled with the idea of “my” God being the “real” one and him being able to keep up with all the watching over everyone and answering everyone’s prayers. As an adult, I take the view that Jesus was a person who had some great ideas for a “big society” and then when he died, the gospels bigged him up and put a spin on everything he said or did. An entity sat above the clouds dishing out famine and allowing wars and holocausts and human devised atrocities.... I choose not to believe in that because it makes no sense. And don’t get me started on Catholic guilt.

I watched a fascinating programme about reincarnation recently. Children who could remember previous lives. One of them repeatedly talked about falling down from the twin towers, another remembers going down in the sea as a pilot in the 2nd world war. They gave names and details of he events which their parents investigated, everything checked out. I'm convinced that we have had past lives, only the body dies but the soul doesn't.

Brahumbug. Thanks for your post. I think you are preaching to the (un) converted here. At the risk of labouring things; I don't believe that the bible makes any kind of sense nor do I really believe in god. I'm just stating that I have some very odd religious experiences which from time time have shaken my disbelief. Not being black and white on the issue I can cope with the paradox.

Short answer to the OP = brainwashing.

I don’t know if it’s been said but ‘the skeptics annotated bible’ is a winner

Lets say people can be a reincarnate.. That still doesn't prove a god exists.

It means nothing.

Whoa.....wait a minute!

Worship...... God ?

FFS I've been worshipping Dog all my life. I must get my dyslexia sorted.

How does that add up. How can you say it means nothing. It's got to do. If there IS reincarnation it means there has to be something. It wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I dont think many people in the UK actually do believe in a 'god'. I only know one person who goes to a church and they are a bit strange. Most people just say they are 'christian' because there isn't a secular category for 'I am a good person'. Cultural christian is probably the closest.

When asked all I ever hear is 'I dunno', most people dont seem to think or care about a god anymore, its definitely going the way of the Dodo, he just isn't needed in the 21st Century.

As for the whole praying thing, well that's an American way of saying we like guns to much, so need an excuse. We know prayer works at the rate of chance, does anyone educated even do that anymore?

Like not being a stamp collector is not a hobby, but researching stamps and seeking out philatelists to slag them off is tipping into hobby territory, atheism is not a belief, but developing a schema around atheism is tipping towards belief.

You Gov poll 2015 32%of UK population believe in god. Just googled it.

Logical, everything is tapped back to God, my prayer was answered there must be a god.

Reincarnation is real that must be because of God... Etc etc.

Maybe we do get re incarnated but if so that has nothing to do with sky fairies.

Simple. Its called Faith.

If anyone fancies a giggle look up “Matt Dillahunty vs Ray Comfort” on YouTube.

MD - former theist.
RC - theist full of startling evidence for god such as “The banana was clearly designed for humans” and “just look at trees. How can you not believe in god?” 🙄