To be worried about the Russian retaliation?

[alligatortoss]

just think you don’t fuck around with them. Anything could happen

It isn't just Litvinenko there are a string of suspicious deaths.
YoloSwaggins you are a Russian bot and I claim my £5

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

Sergei Skripal and the 14 deaths under scrutiny - www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43299598

If the Russians actually didn't do this, they'd be desperately keen to find out who nicked their potion & what's more, used it to knocked off somebody without their permission. The behind scenes scramble to catch & punish the thief would be frantic. The apathy, sneering & pretend-affront over being accused pretty much proves their guilt, imho.

It just doesn't make sense for him to have done it "for the vote". Knowing your president offed someone abroad wouldn't make you more likely to vote for them, it would make you LESS likely to vote for them. So it could have been done by some political opponent.

@flockoftreegulls LOL ok

poor

I disagree.

I don't think Putin counted on the response at all. Yes he may have been hoping to 'send a message' to all of his enemies accepted, did he expect the UK to find out the source of the nerve agent and then condemn Russia so publicly. I doubt it. It has become embarrassing for Russia, they look like a tin pot dictatorship bungling the 'assassinations' at no one has actually died yet (thankfully)

The second theory might be that Putin's enemies did this to undermine him just before the elections. He is keeping quiet because it would be hugely humiliating for him and so it is easier to accept global disgust than to risk his hard man reputation. Some time ago I was reading about a coup within his own ranks. Maybe this is the truth?

No he isn't doing anything for votes, the election is a foregone conclusion. It's a message to his enemies.
And the strongman image actually makes him more popular in Russia.

did he expect the UK to find out the source of the nerve agent and then condemn Russia so publicly.

Using a weapon level nerve agent to kill two people is like using a 4x4 to swat a fly. It's literal overkill and if it weren't so serious it might almost be funny. I can't believe for a second that it wasn't a strong message to both other people on Russia's hitlist and Britain. And it's not much of a message if people don't find out about it. The whole point is that it's a serious weapon that can't be used except by the government and military.

'Strong condemnation' means nothing; he doesn't give a toss what May says and he surely knew she wasn't going to say 'oh yes, just commit murder on British soil and we'll be fine with it'?

He doesn't give a shit. We are not important and he thinks our territory is fair game on which to make a point to traitors.
He's playing to the Home crowd as much as that Putin wannabe is when he starts with " Build the Wall".
I used to live in Russia. There's a majority there who love to see Russia being strong and who will shed few tears for the death of a traitor. The shocking way he was killed is only relevant to the home crowd if it causes financial problems. A few expelled diplomats won't do that.

Yolo you're assuming your average Russian citizen thinks like you. You should have heard the words and tone of the newsreader on the Russian tv news about this issue. You'd be appalled if the BBC spoke like that but it's acceptable in Russia because they think differently.

I keep thinking abiut the policeman and the a and e staff . I can’t imagine the time lag between treating/attending to them and then realising what they had in their hands . They must have been petrified .

They could have shot him , but instead they caused absaloute fear and havoc.

And as for who ‘they’ are . I will trust the authorities have a far better idea on this than I do .

He didn’t do it for the votes it’s not a democracy it’s a police state. There is no way on earth Putin is not going to win the election. If you dissent ,you disappear, they barely even pretend to be a democracy these days.

llljk you can’t ban all Russians from owning property in London. If you did you would sweep up people like my old neighbour who was a law abiding Russian woman who happened to own the top flat in the converted house I shared with her and other owners in SE London. She wasn’t an oligarch she was a teacher.

Missed Eliza can you tell us more? What were they saying?

I was thinking of banning Russian but not also UK nationals; I bet your neighbour is dual national or only British, Gamerwidow.

Just said on R4 that every major investment firm in London has a special 'Russian client' manager who deals with tax and issues special to Russian investors. But that retaliating against these Russian investors would hurt BP who get 1/3 of their oil from their 20% stake in an oil extraction company that is nominally owned by Kremlin. So it seems UK is toothless. Shame.

As for worries expressed earlier in this thread that Russia’s new hypersonic missile would knock us out befor we could retaliate, the UK’s nuclear deterrent is based on our Trident submarines... These would be practically undetectable, deep in the ocean somewhere remote, and nukes launched from these if ever needed giving the UK guaranteed “second strike” capability.

But back to reality, Russia are never going to start WW3 over this... there is nothing to suggest Putin is a madman intent on destroying the world. By over-reacting hysterically to this, quaking about Russia’s power, all we are doing is playing into his hands.

The best thing we can do strategically is to become energy independent... This is why I support fracking. Yes, we should be moving towards renewables, but the political and economic gains of energy independence whilst we move towards a fully renewable future outweigh the risks associated with it, and we remain vulnerable and dependent on queationable regimes, be that Russia or the Saudis.

Need more onshore wind, too. But the NIMBYs have won on that, ferocious and successful opposition to them.

To all you fracking lovers - did you , like everyone else, laugh when it caused earthquakes in Blackpool? Did you assume middle class Nimbyism when there were protests down south. Did you cheer when the process of objection was changed when residentsof the Fylde saw what happened a few miles away in Blackpool and objected?
Fracking is, in theory, a clever idea. Not when it is put in the hands of irresponsible private companies who exploit prejudice against the North and are propped up by a discredited government.
As you were.

I hate the water waste linked to fracking. There are no good choices, though. I like wind.. but that galvanises the whole community into opposition (anti-wind campaign linked to thugs, thieves, vandals and liars locally). PLUS Ukip.

To all you fracking lovers - did you , like everyone else, laugh when it caused earthquakes in Blackpool?

The ‘earthquakes’ were no more than the mildest of tremors... magnitude 3 on Richter scale (which by the way occurs numerous times daily across the world with no ill effects). So, yes, if people are equating this kind of micro-tremor with the ramifications of being dependent on the likes of Russia and Saudis for energy, then that is laughable!

Ps I’m not a fracking lover, and understand it’s not great, but to me it’s clearly the least worst alternative all things considered (politically, economically and environmentally) in the round.

I've read one analysis (in The Guardian) that suggests this is in part a way to send a message to anyone in the USA who might be thinking of spilling any beans about Russia interfering with the Presidential election to the Mueller investigation. It makes sense to me - what happened to that guy and his daughter was obvious, and highly unpleasant. A good way to 'gently remind' anyone seeing that talking too much can be hazardous not only to your own health, but to that of your loved ones as well.

If the sole goal had been to kill this guy, there are any number of quiet, shady ways to achieve that. Boris Berezozsky (I think I've misspelt that mind you) was recorded to have committed suicide but there are those who believe he was murdered and the scene was set to make it look like he'd killed himself. A car accident, a trip into the path of a lorry, a fall into a river... I don't doubt for a moment that the FSB / KGB are more than capable of arranging such things.

In terms of what Putin is likely to do now, I'd imagine he'll go for some tit-for-tat diplomat expulsions for now. Apparently last time something similar happened, the British ambassador in Moscow had to ask London to stop expelling Russians before he lost his entire embassy staff - I believe he said something along the lines of 'Don't get into a pissing contest with a skunk'! I really doubt nukes are in any way likely. Putin is playing a game - he wants to win and he doesn't care too much about jettisoning a few pieces, but he doesn't want to smash the board.

Also, 'shennanigoats' is the best thing ever typed

Did anyone see the Panorama programme on Putin? Scary stuff.

And no, he's not a madman. That would imply he's out of control. He's not - he's entirely rational apparently, but ruthless (obviously). I think the reason some people call him a madman is simply because they don't know what his motivation is, what his end game is.

I should imagine if Putin want d to nuke us all he wouldn't need to mess about poisoning people first.

Has anybody noticed Putin’s had a facelift recently too? He’s knocking on a bit, nearly 70. Think that’s why he’s so keen to big up his tough guy act.

I think he must be a bit sensitive about it too. His wiki article gives his DOB but not his age after it as normal. Little Kremlin typy fingers at work.