To be worried about the Russian retaliation?

[alligatortoss]

just think you don’t fuck around with them. Anything could happen

however -the approach of some - appearing on RT - talking of cooperating will do nothing. Economic impacts will work. Thats about it.

Helmet - exactly which is playing to the domestic agenda.

Sorry. I know it is actually quite a serious global political situation.

But I was thinking of Telling My Dad On Them.
*
Does anyone else have suggestions?*

Illistriously do you always respond to challenge/ debate in such a dismissive, rude and obnoxious manner? I came here to have a discussion about current affairs - fortunately I am capable of both getting on with my life as you so charmingly put it (I don't lie awake worrying about this stuff) and having an online discussion about world affairs.

I suggest it's you who needs to grow up.

user - i think you are missing about the nerve agent. Russia will not admit at all that it was complicit. the whole "send us samples' is about sending the message of "yada yada - so you say Britain - what are you going to do about it"

High end nerve agents are ghastly and extremely dangerous the particular ones being used were developed specifically to avoid detection and remain in the environment. The only stocks are in Russia.

Saddam would have loved some of them - he had a vast chemical weapons production facility and was using them, as has Assad. They also think very strongly that most of the Saddam era chemical weapons just crossed into Syria.

Lots of nuances voice, I agree.

But beyond the Russian election there are reasons for Putin to pick a fight with the UK. London has a significant community of rich and influential Russian emigres, and he doesn’t like the fact that they’re so comfortable here and out of his sphere of close control.

He also knows that the UK has long turned a blind eye to laundered Russian money because it props up our economy and in particular the London property market. So if sanctions are imposed which make it less comfortable for Russians to expatriate themselves and their money over here, it will suit him very well and damage us.

And obviously he is also sending a message to those expat Russians and their families - if we deem you an enemy, you are not safe from us on UK soil.

Oh do fuck off you sanctimonious knob. Try accepting the fact that people have a different opinion to you and that the EU is not the pinnacle of the world.

'Sanctimonious knob' says the person who writes "How many times on this thread...
[grins]

I'm just pointing out that your little opinions are wrong.

Putin wanted Brexit. It is good news for Russia. What part of that are you struggling to understand?

Lark - spot on. the message is clear -Putin has long arms and dont speak out or we will find you and kill you.

Much like a mafia boss (which is spot on for Russia).

The reason the emigres like it here is that the British Government doesn't seize peoples assets for dissent or just lock them up as they fall out of favour. We do try and follow the rule of law - and while we may not particularly like someone for whatever reason - we dont just take things off people.

Just seizing assets is the action of totalitarians - which is why when McDonnell talks about just appropriating assets from people, most sane people raise an eyebrow and say " John, theres a chap, tone it down"-

I find it very odd that the man used his real name, that his daughter was allowed to leave Russia to visit him at all, and after his wife and son died, in possibly suspicious circumstances, he continued to live in the same place. Of course they may have let her leave to find him.

Lark I agree. But spies knocking off spies has always happened and I can see how they'd be viewed as an enemy of the state. But it's the uncontrolled method of dispatch via nerve agent, which has also affected British nationals just doing their job, that is a new development. Like the Russians are saying 'not only are our ex pats unsafe on UK soil, but neither are your nationals'. This was the first use of what is essentially a chemical weapon on UK soil.

Cool

You do know the reach of the FSB /KGB? They are one of the most effective intelligence and counter intelligence agencies in the world.

They will find you. So why hide?

It doesnt help that there are a fair few people who openly sympathise with them in a great many countries, either actively helping, or passively by sharing information, speaking in their defence or working against their opponents.

Sorry meant so too are your narionals. Grammatical fail.

LittleLionMans Mummy - but i think that is part of the message. Russia doesn't care about collateral damage. You are a traitor therefore you and the people who shelter you should suffer.

Remember Stalin sentenced an entire people to death for colluding with Germany (colluding - as in being invaded and brutally suppressed)

Putin would love to be seen as another Stalin.

And to add Brexit to the mix. Ukraine wanted to join the EU and it wanted to orient itself westwards. This was not acceptable to Moscow. ukraine was the birthplace of modern Russia as a concept, it was where Stalin was from. It was the hotbed of the revolution. For them to align west was simply not on.

So, the usual Russian tactic - ferment unrest, support opposition parties, send "volunteers" to help separatists etc.

A weakened and internally focussed EU suits his agenda to stop the expansion west of the EU with pesky requirements like human rights and rule of law and transparency. Brexit was a golden opportunity to kick the ants nest and get on with the picnic

voice interestingly there was a BBC journalist being interviewed this morning who alluded to Nazi Germany. He had been in Russia filming and the whole time they were there they were hounded by numerous cars following them, accused of things they knew nothing about and heard stories of Russian citizens being shot and tasered for publicly airing a disagreement with the current regime. He said they're not holding an election, it's a foregone conclusion (though Putin does also have a lot of support). The footage was really sinister.

LittleLion absolutely. As I said upthread, the choice of a ‘dirty’ weapon (with the potential to cause collateral damage) sends a message of its own.

It will be interesting to see whether the Home Office’s review of suspicious past deaths includes a reopening of the case of Dr Matthew Puncher.

He said it was 'horses heads in the bed' type stuff like they were being shown 'look what we can do, what we're capable of'.

Littlelionsmanmumythingy

Agree- this is about showing dissenters what they can do. Many of them are literally called "a calling card". Lets you know - quite clearly they are there, they are watching and you have no power to stop them.

It was always said that every major hotel in Moscow was bugged. And the KGB had an entire division looking for Kompromat on anyone. They played a very very long game. Sleeper agents and compromised politicians were a speciality

Then there were the ones who were vocal about supporting the Russkies - Lenin called them useful idiots.

The problem with Russia didnt end when the wall came down - it changed but it hasnt gone away

Putin is a billionaire, why would he want a war.....without a world to enjoy it.

Who needs a war when you can throw your weight around, eliminate enemies, intimidate foreign powers, consolidate your own power? Being rich and powerful doesn’t stop people wanting to be richer and more powerful.

because he knows we wont go to war - and neither will he.

He is a hard man trained in the KGB and believes in Russia asserting its role in global politics (also wants to make $$$). He (or Russia, same thing) has sent a message to dissenters, emigres that they live their lives as long as Russia allows them to (thats of course if it was Russia since there isn't any conclusive evidence it was them. It may have been someone from a satellite state or just a renegade person or group)

200 Nuclear weapons can reduce Russia's population to 0, zero, nada.

Not even close! Do you know how sparsely populated Russia is? If you dropped all 200 on Russia there would still be Russians who wouldn’t even know that a war had started.

Putin has never had so much fun. We are doing all the hard work for him.