IVF/pregnant friend

[ohbigdaddio]

Posting here for traffic! My DH and I have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility and are starting our 2nd IVF attempt soon. We have no DC and I have never been pregnant. I am on medication for anxiety and depression – the struggle to conceive has had a huge impact on my self esteem and mental health and I have had suicidal thoughts in my darker moments.

My friend (let's call her Debbie!) lives abroad and for the last week or so has been trying to Skype with me. There is a big time difference and we couldn't find a time when both of us could talk. I thought she wanted to see how I am doing as she knows what we are going through and that my mental health is suffering. I thought that was really nice of Debbie as she hasn't really been overly supportive and on Friday I suggested we talk today. She said texted to say she couldn't wait to talk any longer and said she had something to tell me...then she attached a scan photo and "We're having a baby!!!!!"

I burst into tears but texted back that I was really happy for her. I feel the scan photo was a bit much considering what we are going through and my mental state. Of course she is excited but there was no consideration for my feelings. (A previous friend announced her pregnancy to me by saying "I know this isn't what you want to hear at the moment but I needed to let you know I'm pregnant. I'll tell you as much or as little about it as you want to know." She also did not send a scan photo.)

Debbie is a good friend but I don't think she knows what to say about IVF. I texted her a while ago saying we would be trying again soon and please keep your fingers crossed for us. She read it but said nothing which I found very hurtful. I now know she must have been pregnant when she read that message and feel that should've given her a bit more understanding of how much we want this? I asked her the due date and she started moaning saying it will be really hot in her country by then and how will she cope? That really got to me. 'I don't care! You are pregnant, don't start moaning about it', I thought.

Anyway. We are meant to be having a chat on Skype today and I am really unsure what to do. She is a very enthusiastic, positive person anyway, so this will be magnified by 10 and she will be extremely excited I'm sure. I know the conversation will be mainly about her being pregnant. I am worried I will burst into tears as I am really envious and so sad that yet again it isn't me with the pregnancy news. I am happy for her but very sad for myself. I don't know what to do for the best – I don't want to put off the chat and her think I don't care but at the same time I'm not sure I am ready for a chat about baby clothes etc.

I am due to go to counselling tomorrow and wondered whether it would be better to work through my feelings with her before calling Debbie, but I am aware that she really wants to chat to me today.

Does anyone have any advice as I am very confused. I don't whether saying something like "I am really happy for you but I need you to know that this is really hard for me and I may find it hard to hear lots of details."? If anybody has been in this situation, how did you handle it? And if anyone has been the pregnant friend, would you be offended by a comment like that/what would you want to hear?

Hi OP so sorry to read your post I must add I wish you loads of luck with your ttc. I've been in similar situations. I dealt with it in my own way which was to back off. I think if someone is a true friend they will be sensitive towards you as your other friend was and not need reminding/YOU won't have to explain yourself. This one on the other hand would have pissed me right off. I would congratuate her but tell her it is very hard for you blah blah so you need some space. I doubt she will get it so be prepared to lose her as a friend. I have found in both RL and on MN that few women get it unless experienced infertility and that doesn't inc women who have tried two seconds to get pg but it took ten. YOU dont need thus crap. Focus on your own journey. Best of luck

bella you sound like a real dick. i would HATE to have known you as a friend. self centred much? cold & heartless

MargaretCavendish, as always, you speak so much sense in all matters fertility.

OP - nothing more to add to my post in the infertility section on Sunday but hope you're encouraged by all the posters reassuring you that you aren't being U.

It sounds like you are starting to realise that there is a pattern with Debbie being insensitive and lacking in empathy. Perhaps step back for a while?

OP, I think you have behaved sensitively and diplomatically. I do wish Debbie would show you the same. I’ve tried very hard in both of my pregnancies to be kind and sensitive to my friends who are ttc (rather like your first friend). I’m not having a baby shower this time as one very close friend is having a very hard time. I wouldn’t dream of subjecting her to that and I wouldn’t want to exclude her either. Both would be hurtful. At the end of the day, my friend’s wellbeing is more important.

I hope Debbie shows you some kindness. Otherwise, she may not be worth your time. Best of luck

You are a lovely friend, @CampariSpritz I'm sure your friend really appreciates that (I certainly would have done).

I am lucky in that I've gotten pregnant three times no problem and delivered two healthy babies

There's always one who just HAS to drop in their super-fertility despite it being totally irrelevant. Bore off.

I cant see that whole post MrsDesireeCarthorse but surely 3 pregnancies and 2 babies equals loss as well?

That sounds really tough and I totally understand your perspective. I've been both sides of the fence and I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. I felt simultaneously happy for them and so upset for us every time I heard another pregnancy announcement. Luckily all my close pregnant friends knew our situation and were very sensitive about it. And I don't see why they shouldn't be. Infertility means you are suffering in emotional (and sometimes physical pain). They can chat babies with all the other people in their life to their hearts content. Why would/should they put that on you too if they are your friend and care about you? How is that massively impacting on their life to not go in to intimate details, share scan photos, moan about pregnancy symptoms, etc, with one person? For me the way others (and I in the reverse) have dealt with it has been a test of who are true friends. I'm not sure Debbie would've passed my test - and not just based on her recent behaviour :/

Also PP comparing infertility to things like being single is like comparing apples and sausages to me. I'm not saying it's not hard, but you could meet the love of your life at 45 and spend another 45 years together. Fertility is finite; if it doesn't happen by a certain time, that's it. It's very different.

I was in your position for 10 years. My friends that weren’t suffering from infertility really could not understand why their joy of 2 months of trying didn’t make me feel positive. The truth is that infertility is bloody hard and unless you’ve been through it or seen it from close proximity you won’t understand the pain it causes. I would literally cry every time I saw a baby. Eventually I started saying that I didn’t do babies. Which was a lie because I had always adored playing and holding babies.

I personally feel that people need to ease up on sending scans to everyone. I think Debbie should have sent you a text to absorb the information and then asked if you would like to see a scan. The kindest of friends are those that let you know and then ask if you’d like to see something or not.

When I finally was pregnant my best friend had had two late miscarriages I never sent her photos of scans, instead I would let her know things were ok in the scan and she would ask or not ask to see a scan. It really is important to give people time to absorb information.

In my last pregnancy I found out I lost the baby at the 20 week scan. Weeks later a friend found out she was pregnant, and because she is worried about the pregnancy (because of my loss) has been (over) sharing every scan, symptom and detail about her pregnancy. Frankly it is beyond hard to deal with. This time my pain isn’t about infertility but about my raw pain for the baby I have lost.

People have different experiences and pain so if someone in the office or wherever isn’t whooping for joy that you have a scan photo, ladies, please try and remember that they shouldn’t have to constantly explain themselves.

OP

*playing with

pilates no. there is a loss but it isn't the same as someone struggling to conceive a first baby. i say that as someone who has a child (but could never have a second). it's not the same thing at all.And whilst i'm at it, i TOTALLY agree with what mrsdesiree said

I’m so sorry to hear what you’re going through and I don’t think you are being unreasonable at all. She didn’t care much about your suffering when she showed you a scan picture without warning, so why should you care about offending her by not being over the moon? It’s so hurtful when people have no tact and because of their insensitivity you end up feeling like you’re in the wrong for not being over the moon. I wish you the best of luck and your friend should have been more tactful. I haven’t been through IVF but I did have two miscarriages and being told that outright by my MIL that my sister in law was pregnant again hurt me a lot. It also made it worse that I was slagged off massively after the event for crying and not being happy.

Hi, I'm the person that @missdesireecarthorse quoted (completely out of context btw) and I'd like to apologise if it came across as insensitive.

I wanted to show the OP that it can be tricky for friends who have or can get pregnant and those who cannot to stay friends and that honesty is key to avoid nasty feeling coming in and potentially scuppering a friendship worth saving.

Two things:
Debbie sounds like a bit of a douche.
@PilatesSuck noticed my point - three pregnancies, two babies...one of my pregnancies ended in a shocker of a miscarriage.

I'm just trying to make the point that IME the friend I had that was ttc was brutal to me as a result of her pain and reluctance to put her feelings on the table with me. I felt it was relevant to mention my MC as it was pertinent to the decline and fall of my friendship.

Anyway, I'm tired. Nightshift is fucking with me.

If someone is struggling with infertility, is it really so hard to send them a text a day or so before you announce it to all and sundry just to give them a moment to adjust to your happy news and give them time to stick a brave face on it?

Is it really so hard not to send a scan photo or bombard your struggling friend with your pregnancy stuff.

A bit of compassion would not go astray. I've known this feeling from both sides. I know what it's like for a friend to go a bit quiet on me during my pregnancy because I went quiet on other people's pregnancies when I was still unsuccessfully TTC. Good friendships survived those quiet spells because good friends understand that someone they love is struggling a little at the moment.

Unfortunately Debbie sounds quite self absorbed and you may find that you've outgrown the friendship OP.

Thanks everyone. Debbie has still not replied to my message which I sent on Monday...trying not to dwell on it but it is niggling away at the back of my mind.

My counsellor suggested contacting her, saying I hope the pregnancy is going well and then saying I'm disappointed that she hasn't replied to my message. I'm not sure about this and feel she wouldn't take it well! A friend suggested I text and clarify that I wasn't trying to offend but things are very difficult right now. Again, I'm not sure about this either! Feel like it is pandering to her. And like somebody mentioned upthread, I am starting to feel I'm in the wrong!

Stupid, I know!

I wouldn't text, OP. Not if you don't think it would make YOU feel better - and I don't see how it could? She was a dick; you sent an incredibly measured and thoughtful response in the circumstances; she is too busy sulking to reply.

Urgh

Sadly it seems as though Debbie isn't capable of understanding how someone else feels. She just wants people around her who want to celebrate with her.

Whether you contact her again should depend entirely on whether you want her in your life right now. You said she has form for sulking before, so chances are she'll get back in touch with you in time, and then you'll need to decide whether you actually want to be friends with her.

I wouldn't text either. Your initial message was beyond polite. If she can't handle that you're not doing a merry dance for her, tough. Your therapist is out of orider putting it back on to you. She's there for you not Debbie.

I agree that you shouldn't text - it's going to come across as either apologetic or confrontational, and neither of those are going to make you feel any better. Let her make contact again in her own time - and if she doesn't then that's sad but tells you something important about her.

ohbigdaddio

I can't help but wonder, especially after you mentioned Debbie has a lot of friends, if she's the type that can be so self-absorbed that she basically is going down a mental list of everyone she wants to use as her "Look at me, I'm pregnant. 🤗" audience. Now that you've 'RSVP'd' that you can't attend her performance she's merely marked you off the list without a second thought.

I think that's quite likely too, leighaJ. She's certainly made it clear that she's not interested in having an actual conversation about how both her and OP are feeling, rather than just getting OP to shower with her attention.

Very insightful leighaJ and that could well be the scenario... Thanks MargaretCavendish you talk so much sense, wish you were my counsellor! Im going to stay strong and not text X

She sounds like a dick and you've behaved with great grace and kindness, OP.

For what it's worth I don't understand your counsellor's advice. Seems to me the most likely outcome is giving Debbie an opening to start an argument with you, and how is that going to help your mental state?

I know DailyMailReadersAreThick, I didn't agree with her suggestion and will not be doing that!