IVF/pregnant friend

[ohbigdaddio]

Posting here for traffic! My DH and I have been diagnosed with unexplained infertility and are starting our 2nd IVF attempt soon. We have no DC and I have never been pregnant. I am on medication for anxiety and depression – the struggle to conceive has had a huge impact on my self esteem and mental health and I have had suicidal thoughts in my darker moments.

My friend (let's call her Debbie!) lives abroad and for the last week or so has been trying to Skype with me. There is a big time difference and we couldn't find a time when both of us could talk. I thought she wanted to see how I am doing as she knows what we are going through and that my mental health is suffering. I thought that was really nice of Debbie as she hasn't really been overly supportive and on Friday I suggested we talk today. She said texted to say she couldn't wait to talk any longer and said she had something to tell me...then she attached a scan photo and "We're having a baby!!!!!"

I burst into tears but texted back that I was really happy for her. I feel the scan photo was a bit much considering what we are going through and my mental state. Of course she is excited but there was no consideration for my feelings. (A previous friend announced her pregnancy to me by saying "I know this isn't what you want to hear at the moment but I needed to let you know I'm pregnant. I'll tell you as much or as little about it as you want to know." She also did not send a scan photo.)

Debbie is a good friend but I don't think she knows what to say about IVF. I texted her a while ago saying we would be trying again soon and please keep your fingers crossed for us. She read it but said nothing which I found very hurtful. I now know she must have been pregnant when she read that message and feel that should've given her a bit more understanding of how much we want this? I asked her the due date and she started moaning saying it will be really hot in her country by then and how will she cope? That really got to me. 'I don't care! You are pregnant, don't start moaning about it', I thought.

Anyway. We are meant to be having a chat on Skype today and I am really unsure what to do. She is a very enthusiastic, positive person anyway, so this will be magnified by 10 and she will be extremely excited I'm sure. I know the conversation will be mainly about her being pregnant. I am worried I will burst into tears as I am really envious and so sad that yet again it isn't me with the pregnancy news. I am happy for her but very sad for myself. I don't know what to do for the best – I don't want to put off the chat and her think I don't care but at the same time I'm not sure I am ready for a chat about baby clothes etc.

I am due to go to counselling tomorrow and wondered whether it would be better to work through my feelings with her before calling Debbie, but I am aware that she really wants to chat to me today.

Does anyone have any advice as I am very confused. I don't whether saying something like "I am really happy for you but I need you to know that this is really hard for me and I may find it hard to hear lots of details."? If anybody has been in this situation, how did you handle it? And if anyone has been the pregnant friend, would you be offended by a comment like that/what would you want to hear?

Thanks all for you replies. I am feeling pretty upset right now so it's good to hear I haven't done the wrong thing. I also have an appointment with my IVF counsellor today so can chat it through with her. Thanks so much for your support.

Sadly Debbie does have form for this lack of empathy...years ago I was severely depressed, she suggested a day out to cheer me up. On the day I felt so, so low I couldn't get out of bed never mind meet her so I told her I felt to depressed to come. Fully expected a supportive reply but she totally ignored my text! She has been a good friend in other ways so I let it go but this time I am not sure what will happen with our friendship. She has loads of friends and I am one of the only ones who is hurting right now, she will have so many who are really excited and able to listen to her news. That's what hurts most. I could understand if I was her only friend but she has so many friends.

My only other thought is that she thinks what I'm going through isn't that bad as another friend of hers lost her baby at 6 months, which is horrendous. I'm wondering if this is affecting Debbie's view of my situation?

for you, bigdaddio - this thing with Debbie has clearly really hurt you. I know it's hard, but try not to second-guess what her 'reason' for reacting like this is - you won't know, and it just encourages you into bad thought patterns. She may still reply kindly - but given her form on this, she may not, and if that's the case then I think you need to accept that, sadly, this may well be the end of a friendship - but, if so, it's about her inability to empathise, it isn't about you and you don't need to take on the stress of it given everything else you're dealing with.

Your friend could have been more tactful but she's just excited and didn't mean to upset you. If you need time then say so, but if she's a good friend don't cut her off completely. My friend is TTC and made excuses not to see me after I announced my pregnancy. Eventually she admitted she found it too difficult to see me because she was jealous and upset. Now I've had my baby and she's still TTC, so she still won't see me because the baby will upset her. I haven't seen her for over six months now, so I've basically lost my friend unless she conceives and then feels ok about seeing me again. I do wonder if she goes out wearing blinkers if she gets upset just seeing a baby?

so I've basically lost my friend unless she conceives and then feels ok about seeing me again

Yes, you're right, you're the one really suffering here

I do wonder if she goes out wearing blinkers if she gets upset just seeing a baby?

Sometimes it is upsetting just seeing babies out and about when you're really in a bad place - just after my third miscarriage I ended up crying in a B&Q because it was so full of families. No one wants to or chooses to feel like that - you make it sound like your friend can just turn it off and she doesn't want to. But there's also a massive difference between just seeing a baby and being expected to talk about the baby, to interact with the baby and generally to have a social occasion that's entirely centred around the most painful thing in your life. I imagine you'd also be upset with your friend if she saw you and didn't want to talk about the baby, so it's really not the same as being out and about where you're reminded for a minute.

@Bellamuerte unless you've been there you really can't understand. The OP has said she is pleased for her friend and wants to talk to her, she just needs time to get her head around the news. Sending her the scan photo would have upset me too.

I remember being on a holiday with my BIL's family in Wales years ago when we were TTC. They announced on the first day that my SIL was pregnant with her fourth, it made that holiday very difficult for me. It would have been better if they'd either not said anything or told DH over the phone beforehand so I had time to get my head around it.

People don't choose to feel that way to be hurtful.

Bella I'm glad I'm not your "friend"

That's staggeringly tactless.

I have also been in floods of tears in a shopping centre - I could regale you with tales til tomorrow morning if you wanted.

I just don't find it reasonable to cut off your friend because she happens to be lucky enough to have something you want. Fair enough, take time to come to terms with it, but be happy for your friend and continue being her friend. I TTC until I was 37 and tbh I had accepted it would never happen for me and had made peace with that. But I got unexpectedly lucky. It's quite hurtful when someone uses your joy as a reason to cut contact with you.

It's quite hurtful when someone uses your joy as a reason to cut contact with you.

Again, I've been on both sides of this - I'm currently pregnant, and have seen very little of a friend starting IVF since I told her I was pregnant (and I suspect that if I tried to talk about the pregnancy - which I never would - that would go from very little to not at all). Am I a bit sad not to see my friend? Of course. But it's such a tiny, tiny pain for me compared to the huge pain she's in - it would just be so selfish and blinkered for me to feel sad for me in this situation.

Also, you seem to be assuming that the sole reason your friend doesn't see you is because you have a baby and she doesn't. I found that there was one person I knew that I just couldn't stand to be around, while for others it was hard but I kept seeing them, bought them presents and visited babies when they were born, even went to a baby shower for one of them. I then realised that the difference is that this one person had always been incredibly self-obsessed and incapable of thinking of others - and now this was centred on her pregnancy. It was her behaviour, not the mere fact of her being pregnant that meant I couldn't bear seeing her. Food for thought?

I do wonder if she goes out wearing blinkers if she gets upset just seeing a baby?

Yes, I think she probably does try very hard to not see babies, young children and pregnant women when she’s out. For very many women, I can’t speak for men, struggling to conceive and contemplating a life without children is indescribably painful.

My friend specifically said she couldn't stand to see me because my pregnancy made her so sad. We were good friends before that. I've never ended a friendship over jealousy, not even when said friend got married before me and I was upset and lonely, not when my other friend won half a million on lotto and I was broke. This isn't my thread though... my point was that if OP values her friend she should take time to come to terms and then remain in touch and not lose her friend. I don't think it's good to isolate yourself because youre upset that TTC hasn't worked for you yet.

You're right there, @Bellamuerte but actually the OP does want to continue the friendship, she just needs to take time to get her head around it. The friend is the one that throws hissy fits.

But there's no reason why it should ruin a friendship. I still get on fine with my SIL despite her insensitivity in the past. Life's too short.

Bully for you that you're so awesome you've never ended a friendship over jealousy. Ffs.

Some people find it incredibly hard. Myself being one. But hey, not only does my body not work and make me feel like less of a woman... also my personality gets fucked through the stress and heartache of it too.

I've also been on both sides of it so I really do get where you are coming from. I wouldn't ask her not to tell you anything, if you do fall pregnant would you expect her to suddenly be as happy for you and listen to details? I do think best would be to postpone the Skype call and have some counselling and then see.
Tbh I think your friend that kind of apologised for being pregnant when she told you shouldn't have done that. She doesn't need to hide it away.

As i said I've been there, it's horrible but it's also not right for other people to not be excited around you.

I didn't say it was easy, @wouldyoudo and neither did I mean to imply I was awesome, sorry if it came across that way. I was livid when my SIL said I shouldn't have IVF because of the 'spare embryos' when she already had 4 DCs of her own (she now has 5). And at the time I did fall out with her badly. But I've now adopted and my DDs love their cousins so I'm glad we were able to get past it.

Admittedly I still don't find her easy to get on with though.

I'm sorry for striking a nerve, though.

It wasn't your post @Lizzie48 but the one below that just ticked me off with the rage

my point was that if OP values her friend she should take time to come to terms and then remain in touch and not lose her friend
How about expecting Debbie to be thoughtful and sensitive to op if the friendship is to be continued. You seem to think that op should get over her distress (“a huge impact on my.... mental health and I have had suicidal thoughts”) to save the friendship.

I don't think it's good to isolate yourself because youre upset that TTC hasn't worked for you yet I think that ‘upset’ doesn’t come close to describing the impact problems with infertility is having on the op. And ‘yet’? The op is having to confront the possibility that TTC doesn’t work for her ever.

Ok, I understand, that poster has been quite patronising on this thread. In mitigation, you do tend to forget what it felt like to be unable to conceive once you've had a family. That's true for me, once we were able to adopt my life moved on and the pain is now in the past. Much like you can forget what loneliness is like once you're in a happy relationship.

for you

Thank you MargaretCavendish you are right, it has really hurt me but good advice, I'm going to try not to get bogged down in her reasons for ignoring me.

And bellamuerte to clarify – as other have done – I don't want to cut my friend off, I just need time to process and get my head in the right space before we chat. I'm seeing a counsellor today and will work through it. But Debbie's reaction to my honesty about needing time and feeling fragile has made me question her empathy levels and, in turn, the friendship.

Sometimes it is how the friend handles it, rather than the fact they are pregnant. A scan photo and 'We're having a baby!!!!!!!!!!!' kind of feels like a stab in the heart to anyone who desperately wants the same, especially when the friend knows that and has seen me cry about it...

I have many friends with children who I haven't cut off as they have been tactful and concerned for me. In turn, I ask about their babies/children. One lovely friend in particular played down her pregnancy so much that when I met for a coffee and asked how it was going she said "oh, we won't talk about me, it's boring!" She was so up for not mentioning the pregnancy at all that I knew she was being very sensitive with me and it meant I felt able to chat to her about how everything was going. She has now given birth and I plan to visit because I know she will be sensitive to my issues, in turn I want to be there for her.

I do wonder if she goes out wearing blinkers if she gets upset just seeing a baby? Um, yes it is hard to see babies, children and families because that is what me and my DH dearly want. I don't walk round crying all the time but some days are difficult – is that so hard to comprehend?

The thing is, I had - of course - felt sad about things that friends had and I hadn't before at various points in my life: happy relationships, jobs, etc. It wasn't the same with fertility, it just felt so, so different. And my journey (which isn't over yet) hasn't been nearly as awful and heart-breaking as many other people on this thread. I guess for that reason maybe it is something that you just don't get if you haven't been there - I would never have predicted the depth of my feelings before I had them. Some people seem to do a much better job of at least trying to listen and understand than others, though.

please don't lose your friends or husband over this. I've been where you are years of watching friends get pregnant, me crying in the toilet but trying to be happy for them and now those same babies are starting to have the grandchildren so here we go again ha! I also did the IVF several times and finally had to make the decision to give it all up before I lost my hubby and my mind. You will get through this either way I hope it works, give yourself a break, talk to your friend when you are having a stronger day. Sending you big hugs xx

I don't know why some people cannot get their head around the fact that IVF doesn't work all of the time or indeed most of the time. That anyone who is going through IVF is facing the very real possibility that they will never have children. Some people seem to think "Oh well she's having IVF so she'll be pregnant soon so why can't she be thrilled for me?"

I don't know why some people cannot get their head around the fact that IVF doesn't work all of the time or indeed most of the time. That anyone who is going through IVF is facing the very real possibility that they will never have children.

I think that's the media's fault - IVF is all 'miracle babies' and pregnancies, there's very little portrayal of it not working. I watched a Netflix show recently which, I think, was the first portrayal I'd ever seen on TV of an IVF cycle which didn't work. Similarly, outside of soaps miscarriage just never happens on TV. DH and I were watching something the other day where a character got a positive test and said 'Oh my God, we're having a baby'. DH immediately snarled 'not fucking necessarily'.

Oh, OP. I have been exactly where you are. Mentally too.

It's. Fucking. Shit.

There's no other way to describe it. Absolutely awful. I'm so so very sorry and just wanted to let you know how incredibly valid your feelings are.

Unless you've been through it, people just don't get it.

Take care of yourself, OP.

Also, people assume it's easy to apply to adopt if you can't conceive naturally or through IVF. My DM was like that. She just said, 'Of course you'll have children because if you can't get pregnant you'll be able to adopt.'

People don't realise that it isn't that straightforward to adopt because you have to go through SS first. And that adoption is not the same as having your own children, and it's not something to go into lightly. Saying, 'Of course you can just adopt' is totally inappropriate.