To ask how many people have asked for a cesarean out of preference?

[VioletteValentia]

I did it. I’ve never met another person who has, or who has admitted to it. I have come across people who seem convinced that supporting maternal choice would lead to everyone asking for cesareans, which I think is bullshit. Not everyone wants one!

Did you do this? Would you? Would you be more likely to if you felt the option was equally acceptable?

I’m interested in how many women feel like I did.

I shouldn’t have to say this but...no “natural v cesarean” insulting please.

Tbh though- and this wasn't the reason why I chose ELCS- yes, it was painful the day after once the initial strong painkillers had worn off but compared to the woman in the bed opposite, who had had a difficult VB, the pain didn't seem so bad...
And the day after that, it was minor pain for me.
I know I was probably lucky.

I didn’t find the wee painful, catheter or not. It was just the poo for me

Tbh OP I do think you're somewhat, I say SOMEWHAT, basing your opinions about this on the fact that you had a non-traumatic c section with no complications. I say this as an absolute advocate of women's right to choose the birth that they want, and as someone that's having a ELCS in three months.

You got lucky, but many women don't. One of my BFs took six months to heal. Another nearly died on the table and had to be knocked out. Many find recovery extremely painful. And while you do have the right to have the birth you want, you can't say for certain that it would've been worse than having a c section.

Birth #1: 26 hour horror. Used hypnobirthing. Did everything right. Failed ventouse x 2 attempts, episiotomy, failed forceps attempt #1, then finally dragged DS1 out with special Rhodes forceps. Was a hideous experience that was a major contributing factor to my PND.

Birth #2: Insisted from the outset that I was having an elective Caesarean. I was carrying twins so they just looked scared and agreed to everything I said. But I would have had a caesarean if it had been one baby. I had a 'natural' / gentle caesarean. It was LOVELY. Uncomfortable at times but not painful. Joyous and calm from beginning to end. I am welling up with happy tears at the memory as I type.

I wish I'd chosen a caesarean for my first birth. There is nothing inherently noble or worthy about the level of torture I went through with DS1. No medical mess-ups, it was just childbirth in all of its natural medieval ghastliness. 🤷🏼‍♀️ And I say this as someone who was a fully-committed hypnobirthing advocate throughout my pregnancy.

I can't speak to why OP feels as she does, but there are plenty of us who have not had easy, uncomplicated sections who are nonetheless fervent advocates of a woman's right to choose.

And while you do have the right to have the birth you want, you can't say for certain that it would've been worse than having a c section.

I can considering my son was back to back, transverse and probably would’ve died if I hadn’t chosen a cesarean.

Obviously not everyone has an easy experience of it. I did, and I’m thankful. But the choice should be the mothers.

I should add those things were missed, despite extensive scans.

Beetle- yes, that is the real issue here. It is the woman's right or at least should be and yet anecdotally there seems to be resistance to this from some in the medical profession. (And definitely not from others, but why should some women have to fight or be ignored)?
And added to that, there seems to be a reluctance to be open about the facts- the risks and benefits of CS versus VB.
Then there is the view in society, it seems to me at least, that 'natural' is best.
Surely what each individual wants is 'best'.

For me the greatest fear with a VB is that it’s so unpredictable & things can go from fine to bad in seconds.

I do agree that in some cases some trusts are very reluctant to give CS’s when they are the best thing for that individual mother. With mother’s getting heavier & older (in general) CS are often the safest way. A friend was in labour for 5 days (in hospital) before they gave her a CS. She had a massive contraction during it & lost loads of blood needing a transfusion. Although I have a friend who needed a transfusion with an ELCS & another one where the epidural was wearing off so they ended up knocking her out during the stitch up. Already talking myself out of no 3!

I was under the impression that in the UK there has to be a medical reason for a C-section, happy to stand corrected though. I had one with both my DDs, one was 20 years ago and the other 11 years ago so maybe things have changed since then?

NICE guidance and arguably the relevant case law say there doesn't rabbity, but unfortunately practice doesn't always reflect this.

Most people are expected to give birth vaginally. Given that's the natural way, it's not unreasonable to expect most to give birth that way and it to be seen as the norm.

Of course some women need a c-section. For many that emerges during labour. I should think there are a relatively small number who need one for mental health type reasons. People who need one can always have one.....but I th,ink it's absolutely right that at the Booking In appointment and subsequent appointments is it is taken as a given that people will be attempting vaginal birth, rather than there is a question 'would you like vaginal or c-section birth'

Simply from a resources point of view, a c-section is extremely expensive and with stretched resources, it is always right for the NHS to consider carefully and to see if there is a cheaper, acceptable option for each patient.

I think it's a fine line between people having to 'work really hard' to convince the medics that they should have an elective c-section and it being very freely available and even offered. I think women with ongoing mental health issues should have those who advocate on their behalf, and those who have had very traumatic previous births should have that info given to health professionals who make future decisions, but actually other people probably should have to make a pretty robust case and that might mean several meetings.

In the end, anyone absolutely insisting, won't be turned away....but there are also lots of women who are understandably nervous about giving birth, but who with support and information can and will do it fine and actually get real satisfaction in the end from it. Those women should be strongly encouraged to try to give birth vaginally and I think the fact that many women just assume vaginal birth unless there is a medical issue, is really the only option, is actually a good thing .

What I don't like is the sense that some people seem to have of 'I didn't want to give birth and so I knew if I shouted loudly I wouldn't have to....it's my right to choose whatever I like' - I simply think that when the costs are so high, actually there shouldn't be total free choice regardless of reasons....but I'm absolutely not saying women who are genuinely terrified, have medical or mental health conditions or previous awful births should be forced to give birth vaginally.

It's just, where do we draw the line with choice, when resources are so very stretched?

Simply from a resources point of view, a c-section is extremely expensive and with stretched resources, it is always right for the NHS to consider carefully and to see if there is a cheaper, acceptable option for each patient.

This argument has been talked about on here a few times, it’s aboit £80 more expensive to have a cesarean.

Plus when you factor in staffing costs and the ability to allocate surgeons, it would work our cheaper if everyone were to have a cesarean.

Why do you feel that a vaginal birth is a better option?

I had a vaginal birth (I don't like using the term natural as find it insulting to women who have had c sections to deliver) I was pretty lucky and had a straight forward labour however not everyone has that experience so i would never judge someone for choosing a c section x

One more post about how ELCS is oodles more expensive than VB and I swear, I'm going to start cancelling cheques. You have all been warned!

ChocolateWombat, it's possible that ELCS for all women would be cheaper when factoring in costs associated with VB, or if not now then let's hypothetically say it happens at some point in the future. If that were the case, would you be willing to entertain the converse argument to the one you're making? Ie, that the expectation should be that women have an ELCS because resources are so thinly stretched, so there's only NHS care for attempted VB if a woman who wants one has MH issues, or is terrified, or had a previous traumatic section. Everyone else has to go through several robust and potentially upsetting meetings. If your answer to that is no, I'd invite you to reflect on why.

Also, on the subject of the natural way, that would involve much higher maternal and perinatal mortality rates than we have now, for example. Mother Nature doesn't give a fuck if a significant minority of us don't make it. I presume you don't think that's positive, so it's worth thinking about why you consider some natural things to be good and others bad.

Even if it were expensive, why would that matter? No one tells women they can’t have an abortion or contraception or an STD check because it’s exirbsuve.

I was begging for a c section throughout my pregnancy and then my 3 day induced labour with failed epidural, and I wouldn't let them near me with forceps. They were about to wheel me in for an EMCS and my baby arrived!

I'm quite glad now - After getting an infection after having a tiny mole removed I can only imagine what recovery from c section can be like!

I think everyone has the right to chose, but should be informed choices and given all the info - eg I had no idea you could still have pelvic floor problems with c section.

Expensive!

It's probably only more expensive if people are having 100% straightforward dream vaginal births with only gas and air and a midwife.

Not that expense should matter anyway.

Beetlejizz thank you for clarifying. My 1st C-section was emergency after the cord got wrapped round DD's neck and the second was arguably elective as I'd been contracting for 3 days and hadn't dilated so asked for one and had it the next day.

I had a the benefit of a really excellent first time birth, so I had to ask myself questions. If something goes wrong.. Would I rather be on a table with staff right by me and medical equipment right-angle there, or do I want buttons pushed, people rushing in, rushing and prepping me for theatre with perhaps a baby half way down the canal... In distress.
My answer to me was.. On the table already.
If I had another tear below or had to be cut.. Precluding weeing and poo and washing or, would I rather a neat cut where I can see it, keep an eye on it and clear it.. Again ansa was second one.

My pelvic floor was a dreams after my section! Took years to recover after 1st Labour but far more intact after section all below was in far better shape. I still did exercise however

so many positive stories of sections, maybe for the next one...

Wish I hadn't read this thread. Gonna have nightmares about bad births now, scare me right off having kids.