To think British people are generally quite nice to children?

[Toadinthehole]

I recently read the following article in the Guardian by Polly Toynbee Has the UK become a country that really doesn’t like children?

It's the comments below the line that I want to discuss, not the article itself. In those comments there is a repeated assertion that compared to other countries (continental Europe in particular) that British people dislike children and treat them unkindly. Here is an example:

Most adults don't seem to like having children around in restaurants or anywhere else adults gather to socialise. You often see the attitude BLT [below the line] here in regard to our young. We British as a nation migh want to protect them but we don't really love them, not like other European countries seem to do.

There are also the usual comments about how too many parents these days let their kids run amok and spoil them etc etc.

I no longer live in the UK but I grew up there and still visit family in London every few years or so. My general observations of UK parents (leastways what I see of them) is that they are on the whole kind to children although perhaps a little bit too worried about breaking them.

AIBU?

No way I don't agree. I think people here see it as children should be seen and not heard honestly I've never had so much grief from strangers since having children. It's now to the point I get nervous if my children make noise in public incase someone has a go at us. I had a man shout and scream abuse at me on a bus because my 2 year old was crying.

I think possibly we prefer to socialise without our children whereas other cultures are more inclusive. On the whole though, I think Brits love kids as much as anyone else.

I have a 6 year old and 3 year old, both of whom can be difficult if in the mood. I have never had negativity from strangers.

YANBU OP. I've found people to be very generous and kind to my DC. My neighbours, the staff in the local shops, bus drivers, waiting staff, friends and strangers. Of course you get the odd curmudgeon, but I think they exist everywhere.

I’ve never had a problem. People are helpful with getting them on and off trains, kind to us in restaurants and at hotels. I mean, I don’t try and take them for a Friday night dinner at the Ivy or something, but neither do I only take them to MacDonalds. People generally couldn’t be more helpful or welcoming.

I have a four year old and a baby, and while it’s not always possible to keep them entirely beautifully behaved, I am trying to bring them up to understand how to behave and think about other people around them (not the baby obv, he’s got no idea ). Also, taking a small bag of Lego out for dinner appears to help.

It probably varies from place to place. The most child friendly place in the UK, ime is Liverpool. Children are at the centre of family life and are spoken to wherever they go. I imagine it's a brilliant place to grow up.

Socialising with kids isn't really the done thing though is it ? Anything that doesn't involve soft play and child is considered inappropriate lest they should offend other guests

People are nice to children, society seems to hate them.

Education is a bit crap, children's services are being cut, libraries closed, teenagers seen as a problem as opposed to our future...

I agree. I have little twins and they particularly are chatted to and coo’d at. I’d say that for every 200 nice interactions there is only one unpleasant one. Maybe even less. And although of course I think they’re fab, they’re actually probably just pretty average kids and no cuter or well behaved than anybody else’s. So I agree.

Even in London where people are supposed to be unfriendly they are nice to kids and SO helpful with prams etc if you’re getting on and off buses etc.

Oh yes, help you on the bus and then vote for your local school to be asset stripped...

My experience with young children has been really positive, everyone seems to chat to you and smile and even when my over tired 18 month old was throwing a proper wobbler in a supermarket the other day, multiple people stopped me to smile and say ‘oh I remember those days!’ Or tell me how patient I was being with him. It was absolutely lovely.

Yanbu. Have a four year old and a one year old here and have never had a negative experience. Only ever had people wanting to strike up conversations with my kids or wanting to give them sweets and other sugary stuff. We seem to have a few negative people that spread this shite that we don't like kids. The same as we have a select group of people that tell us our food is shite. And that we should be eating wonderful Italian (any other nation) food who do it so much better. It's such bullshit. Our food and eating out culture is so much better and varied (and child friendly) than much of Europe.

My twins are 10 now but they were born in London. I don't drive so either had to walk or use public transport. People would often stop me for a chat and ask about the babies, telling me about twins they knew. People would always offer to help me off buses. At an airport waiting for a delayed flight, two sisters walked up and down with my grisling toddlers whilst I tried ring my mum. Once the lifts, where I lived were out of order and neighbours helped me carry two pre walkers and the buggy to the 11th floor. I never felt entitled to help, was always massively grateful for any help offered and thanked them profusely. I can't understand where we get reputation for not liking children. My SIL visited from Stockholm and she said people were helpful in London her daughter.

Thankyou all of you who are saying us older people actually like children. As an OAP I love children they crack me up and make my day when out. Mind you my youngest is 12 and although severely disabled everybody of all ages are very understanding, perhaps I am lucky.

I think people in britain like children but at the same time they seem to lead separate lives to the adults.
In most cases kids at very early , adults eat after kids are in bed.
Children go to bed very early.
Start full time school very early as well compared to other European countries.
Children are taken to "child friendly " places/pubs/restaurant/holidays etc
whilst in other places kids will eat with the family, go to bed only a bit earlier then parents/rest of family, there aren't many specific child friendly things, you just take them with you where you are going etc.

I think the UK is mostly child friendly, I've had nothing but lovely chats and comments from strangers, people chat to them, coo at babies etc.. there is a lot of focus on child health, fun things to do, protection etc etc.

However when I lived in the Middle East it just felt a whole other level. We would go to cafes and kids were allowed to run around and have fun, and strangers would be laughing along with them, picking them up and chatting to them, giving them food etc. Parties would go on until the early hours with kids still running around. It felt like they weren't seen as a nuisance but essential to the enjoyment of the night/outing. It's the same in Spain etc. I think we value our quiet adult time more here! (In general)

I think Britain has it right.

We have restaurants where kids are more than welcome, high chairs baby food etc and restaurants etc where they aren't. I think that's fine. I like socialising with my kids very much, but if I've actually escaped without them, I really don't want to socialise with other people's.

But there nothing wrong with expecting good behaviour from kids in public places, especially restaurants. I see French Spanish and Italian kids running riot in restaurants and I'm jolly glad that we don't welcome behaviour like that

I also think the weather has a lot to do with it. If it’s pissing down with rain then the kids have prob been cooped up all day and then have energy to burn in the evening.

If you have better weather then the kids can play out in the day and then in the evening too.

I think British people on the whole like kids who are well behaved and have little time for kids who seem to be allowed to behave badly by their parents.

I think that our society is organised around adults and children having different lifestyles and different needs. Personally I think that is correct. My DC both wanted to be in bed by 7.30 when preschoolers and were pretty grouchy if up much later than that. Our social life has always revolved around that - ie we went out when they were asleep and had a baby sitter or we had a child friendly occasion at tea time or we took travel cots and put them to bed and had adult time whilst they slept upstairs.
To me the idea that you keep children up until whatever hour or take them out to dinner and let them fall asleep in a car seat or under the table isn't being "child friendly" but being selfish.
I live in central London and have almost never seen negativity to children being up and around during the day. The worst experience ever, when my 2 year old decided to have the mother of all temper tantrums in Sainsburys, at least 3 older ladies just laughed at her and said - "Someone is doing her best to annoy mummy aren't they?" Also never been in a Tube station with a double buggy and not been offered help carrying up stairs - even Bank station at rush hour, I really can't imagine people being so helpful in Paris...

I think yanbu. I have a baby and a 3yo and generally only had good / trying-to-be-helpful comments, even when the toddler was mid tantrum.

We’ve travelled to Ireland and Italy with our dc and had mainly positive comments and reactions then too. Fwiw we did have a horrible cunt on the plane from Milan to London who was Italian but was seriously arsey about my then 18mo. She wasn’t even being particularly disruptive, she was just chattering and looking at pictures. Had a little cry on landing, but she’s been a lot worse and had no negative comments. I tore a strip off him in the end, as I speak some Italian and could understand him taking the piss out of us and dd. Makes me just remembering it.

I also used to live in Paris and weirdly I can’t even remember having any interaction whatsoever with children there. The above post just made me realise that.

Agree about London - always had help with the pram and people making a fuss of DS on the tube/in shops etc.

Totally agree with @Toffeelatteplease

My DH is French (from the med part) and we live in Switzerland. When we visit his family and eat out, there are often millions of kids running amok when they should be in bed. I find this even worse in Spain and Italy where it can be 1am and toddlers are still up!

I don't think this lack of routine demonstrates that the Latin cultures 'love their kids more' - what a load of bollox! On the contrary in fact; us Brits like the kids to have a proper night's sleep and not be running around adults that could be drunk, swearing etc. (& adults have every right to do this - although not to excess in public obvs).

I think the British way of having places and times of the day that are generally regarded as being reserved for adults is beneficial for both adults and children and is nothing to be sneered at (I say this with a 2-year old and 8-week old).

And we are generally not given to loud and ostentatious displays of public affection towards children or anyone really, but only an idiot would think that means Brits hate children. The inscrutable Chinese obviously couldn't give a shit about their offspring either....

I think children are treated like second class citizens here.

Today my 11 year old DS was queuing at the farmers market and an older woman who was next in the queue behind him ignored him and ordered first. There was no adult in front of him at this point so it was not a case of thinking he was with a parent and not buying. This is a regular occurrence for him . I have told him that he has the right to speak up and say 'Excuse me, but I was here first', but he is shy and often needs another (decent) adult to point out to the queue jumpers that it is his turn.