To think British people are generally quite nice to children?

[Toadinthehole]

I recently read the following article in the Guardian by Polly Toynbee Has the UK become a country that really doesn’t like children?

It's the comments below the line that I want to discuss, not the article itself. In those comments there is a repeated assertion that compared to other countries (continental Europe in particular) that British people dislike children and treat them unkindly. Here is an example:

Most adults don't seem to like having children around in restaurants or anywhere else adults gather to socialise. You often see the attitude BLT [below the line] here in regard to our young. We British as a nation migh want to protect them but we don't really love them, not like other European countries seem to do.

There are also the usual comments about how too many parents these days let their kids run amok and spoil them etc etc.

I no longer live in the UK but I grew up there and still visit family in London every few years or so. My general observations of UK parents (leastways what I see of them) is that they are on the whole kind to children although perhaps a little bit too worried about breaking them.

AIBU?

I disagree, I think BazilGin's post was both rude and offensive;

In comparison to other European countries, no, the U.K. seems to hate children. The earliest school start in Europe (which has proven to be damaging but hey who cares!), the highest childcare fees (honestly, wtf!), boarding schools from early age (for upper classes or the rich, I suppose). General attitude is that "they should be seen not heard". You can only take them to "child friendly" places, education system seriously screwed (testing at 7, anyone? This is the age I have actually STARTED school). Not to mention horrible attitude towards teenagers, lack of school resources, any extra curricular activities are expensive. You come out of university in debt. In comparison, I had a completely free primary and secondary (state funded) music education. Paid nothing for my university....I can go on and on....

As a family split between Britain and North America there is a big difference how children are treated. I love how in Britain children are treated as precious little things. We always have people stop and chat to the kids. I think the children really benefit socially from it. I do like in North America how dinners are a family occasion and there is no ‘adult time’ as time away from kids is somehow something to strive for.

I didn’t intend to offend anyone. I do think that as a society UK is failing children and young people. Considering that it’s one of the biggest economies in the world, am I wrong to be shocked how many schools are underfunded and lacking resources? I perhaps missed the point of the thread. I am not sure how it’s relevant whether or not I live in the UK. I certainly have lived in the UK long enough to form an opinion. It’s not the first time I was told to f**ck off from here though. Nice!

I didn’t think that was offensive, more frustrated!

Considering that it’s one of the biggest economies in the world, am I wrong to be shocked how many schools are underfunded and lacking resources? I perhaps missed the point of the thread. I am not sure how it’s relevant whether or not I live in the UK.

I completely agree.

I don't know enough about the pre-16 education system in the UK v everywhere else to comment on the rights and wrongs. Compared to say the USA however, it can at least keep them alive and not have them gunned down in their classrooms by fellow students.

I agree with many posters, the UK is generally not very tolerant of children.

Most people are using examples of babies and toddlers, who do generally get a good reception, but older children do not.

I’m not even talking about restaurants, but on the street and public transport children are seen as second class citizens. My children are scowled at equally whether they are sitting down quietly reading a book, or chatting happily.

We’ve just been to visit family in India, and the difference in the attitude to school aged children is astonishing. And before someone reminds me of the poverty that some children live in over there, I know, and it’s shit, but the proportion of children living in poverty in the UK has massively shot up since 2010...

I do think other countries are more family centred and family friendly. I would agree with a PP that Italy is probably the most - when we were in Rome it was accepted as a matter of course that people with babies and young kids would skip queues etc and there was never any snide comments or anything about it that I think you’d get in the UK. And France had family changing rooms long before we did in the UK, for example.

I agree that it’s about attitudes to having a family - in the UK it’s seen as a choice whereas in some other countries (while obviously still being a choice) it’s just what you do. So people are perhaps quicker to try and make things easier.

That said though people are people everywhere and I’ve had lots of help here at home in the UK,

I agree that it’s about attitudes to having a family - in the UK it’s seen as a choice whereas in some other countries (while obviously still being a choice) it’s just what you do. So people are perhaps quicker to try and make things easier.

Exactly. My fathers country, it’s fairly religious. Anti abortion, large family. They are so child friendly it’s untrue. In DPs culture, it’s similar. Large families are very normal and everyone is helpful.

In the U.K. having kids is seen as a choice and if you choose it, you have to do it 100% yourself. It’s a very unpleasant attitude in my opinion.

I find the anti-abortion stance to be a very unpleasant attitude, personally. Child-friendly, but less bothered about adult women....

Yeah, I’m not keen on that either. But from a family perspective the country is much more accommodating.

For me personally, that attitude suits as I would never have an abortion (pro choice for other women) unless needed medically, however I think the option should be available. The set up would suit me better though.

I’m British and live in the UK and didn’t find BazilGin’s post remotely offensive - our education system is awful for kids; do some research and you’ll see why.

I’m not sure if I agree that the UK hates kids per se but you certainly see the opinion expressed on here regularly enough that kids are annoying, boring, tiresome... How often have I read a view along the lines of ‘I love my own kids but can’t stand other people’s’ ?!

So yes perhaps YABU OP.

"It’s also very fashionable to not have kids or have them later in the UK"

No more so than among educated people in other developed countries.

"Gwenhwyfar If a woman is over 60 here they push in front. They just think their entitled. No idea why, in the most part they look and seem totally steady on their feet and able bodied. It's weird, but it's just what they do."

I'm not 60, but I think they do get tired standing up more easily than a younger person would.

I take everything Polly Toynbee says with a giant spoonful of salt. Very good at talking her own book, that one.

"@BazilGin

Not the highest then. So not true; i.e. bollox."

Being one out hardly makes it bollox!

Well, my own observations (as the OP) are as follows. I'm referring to London, which is where we visit.

1. I remember lots of toughs hanging around when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. They seem to have gone.

1. The UK parents I know take time to explain rules and try to get on their kids' wavelengths.

1. ""Someone is doing her best to annoy mummy aren't they?"" is a very UK sort of response; using kindly humour to defuse a situation. Where I live (NZ) the reaction would be more forthright.

1. My UK nephews and nieces are nice to be around: they relate to adults well. This reflects not only their parents but the community they're in, to which they are a credit.

The only criticism I'd make is that the UK parents I know are softer than I'd be on boundaries. I do love my kids but compared to them I'm gruff. However, even their softness demonstrates love, in my opinion.