Am I alone in wondering where the WOMEN wanting to trans are?

[loveyouradvice]

They feel so invisible....

Everywhere I look there are men who have or are transitioning to be transwomen - on magazine covers, on all women shortlists, in the media....

But where are the natal born women who are/have transitioned?

The only two I've come across are:

• one who detransitioned and wrote movingly about it, after ten years as a transman
• the american high school wrestler who is fighting to be allowed to fight in men's categories

The castration comment is worth judging in context with the trans men basis of this thread (!)

A trans man usually has one specific surgery - though some have more later. That is a mastectomy. In terms of trans women the term is medically an orchiectomy.

So using the medical term for one gender and not the other would be noticeable.

If you were to say a trans man has his boobs hacked off it would be a similar thing I suppose.

I would not personally get het up over terms but I imagine the connotations of the procedure might impact on usage.

Castration has an air of what is done to criminals to lower their sex drive because they are rightly or wrongly perceived as perverts. You get no such associations with a mastectomy.

So it might be chosen to be used because of the imagery conjured up.

Of course, in reality chemical castration occurs pre surgery anyway (it has to) and in non surgical cases often does too.

But castration is hardly ever done as a procedure on its own but as a part of the procedures that use existing tissue in creation of a vagina and clitoris under what we term GRS (Gender Reassignment Surgery). Though I gather even this was considered wrong and is being replaced with GCS (Gender Confirmation Surgery).

At the same time though, I am unwilling to police what other women say/feel about the whole topic. I understand that other women/people have different opinions to me, and thats just fine. If someones post is a little too strong for my taste, I simply ignore it. If its way too strong, I will ignore and maybe report. What I will not do, is pull them up on it in the thread, this helps noone and will just make the thread descend into a bunfight.

Same here, unless someone is being dreadfully unfair or outright lying

Or im in a bad mood...im not often in a bad mood though

@usernamechange99 you misunderstand me. Noone, man or woman, can do anything to you against your will. If you don't want a particular HCP for any reason at all that is your business.

The "minor inconvenience" I'm referring to is the worst case scenario of having to rearrange an appointment if the HCP you're confronted with is not one you're comfortable with, and if another is not available to step in.

Noone, now or in the future, self-ID or no self-ID, is going to insist someone can touch your body that you do not want to touch your body.

still

Now im in a bad mood

I have said a number of times that i am against self ID

I am in no way shape or form against GRA

I feel (and apologies if im wrong) that every time someone says they dont like self Id that you start talking about rolling back the GRA

Im not unhappy about a 13 year old piece of legislation

The 13 year old piece of legislation is awesome...its the best bit of legislation ive ever seen

I do not like the new bit...

@RatRolyPoly apologies for the misunderstanding. I've witnessed people being called a bigot for not agreeing that people should have a say in these scenarios. It's a mine field. I am scared of these transactivists - they seem too keen to shut down debate and not address genuine concerns. Instead we are met with anger and name calling.

Any woman who has become a woman and doesn't have the necessary tool (for lack of a better word) for harming me in that way is welcome to examine me - heck after all that surgery she would know more about a vagina than I do

Women are being censored let right and centre...

People are being censored when they are harassing and threatening, otherwise they are just being disagreed with.

But..AGPs would not generally be under the care of gender specialists. As they are usually these ridiculous shouty 'my penis is female, I am female because I like wearing short skirts' types.

AGP isn't wildly accepted to be a proper diagnoses, that's why no one is being treated for it. However, I do agree that there are a very small number of people who behave that way but the previous poster, sorry I can't remember her name, is claiming that a significant proportion of trans people have AGP, that AGP is really what transgenderism is.

The woman in question was not forced to accept healthcare but she was told that the male person she had been sent when she asked for a female was actually female. By the trans staff member involved.

I'm glad that we agree that it hasn't actually happened. I've got sympathy with that woman, I can see that it would be an difficult situation to deal with but most of us deal with embrassing, difficult situations every day. The law as it stands and the new law that was proposed (but doesn't look like it it happen) won't change her right to refuse and rightly so.

Do you have any examples of death/rape threats being sent from feminists? Or any proof of feminists calling transpeoples places of work to try and get them fired? How about any instances of feminists punching transwomen because the transwoman wants a right to talk about a law change?

Here you go, this women has outed trans college students and violated medical privacy, she's a peach:

rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cathy_Brennan

A woman who uses the tag 'GallusMag' has made a career out of 'doxing' she finds and outs young people who are questioning or in early transition. There is a claim that a young person killed themselve after one of these 'doxings' but it's impossible to prove that was the only reason but it's safe to say she added to the burden of someone who already had a lot on their plate.

I feel (and apologies if im wrong) that every time someone says they dont like self Id that you start talking about rolling back the GRA

No, it's me who does this usually Rufus, sorry!

I think still was just relating it back to one of the big topics of discussion that we've covered, which is that particular aim of a group of posters (not you!) and the perceived obfuscation of intent.

I'm actually a terrible busybody whose forever pulling people up for their posts on threads... whoops!

“Castration has an air of what is done to criminals to lower their sex drive because they are rightly or wrongly perceived as perverts. You get no such associations with a mastectomy.”

Yes. I repeated the term thoughtlessly upthread and so asked for my post to be deleted.

I think if you are going to deliberately use a term that you know will offend, that is a strong thing. Some people believe that there are times when this is justified and necessary. So, for instance, Christopher Hitchens wrote a paper about Mother Teresa entitled The Missionary Position. He wanted to offend because he thought this was necessary in the circumstances.

Who's, not whose!

The problem with terms is that the transactivists are controlling the narrative.

Hence affirmation surgery, chest feeding, front hole. Midwifery forums having to constantly police their language for fear of offence.

Everything that has the word woman and it is being deliberately targeted. Lesbian, vegan restaurants, teenage bra fitting services, Hampsted women's pond, The vagina monologues, etc.
Transwomen claiming they have periods, now, because of mood swings induced by hormone treatment.

The euphemism of affirmation surgery is deliberate. That's why Posie use the word castration. Castration is medically and technically correct. However loaded it sounds.

It's the pushback.

Well stop it rat !!!!!!!

still is a big girl

Still quoted me and then went on a GRA discussion...it felt to me like she was contecting my 'dont like self Id' with 'hey lets roll back the GRA and get rid of those pesky rights'

Noone, now or in the future, self-ID or no self-ID, is going to insist someone can touch your body that you do not want to touch your body.

If you ignore the large numbers of transactivists, and even larger Numbers of 'transgender' (note, not transsexual) people who will insist that lesbians accept sexual contact from male people. Of course.

datun

And 2nd puberty!

Is it really a 2nd puberty?

Datun I think you say things to people’s faces which is ultimately respectful. Even if worded strongly.

I really hate it when people don’t reply but instead comment to each other. I find that so intimidating and I bet other people on both sides do too.

Have i spelt puberty right

You get Karen Jones, the killer and attempted rapist, who was released from prison and five days later attempted to rape a woman, binding her with a pair of suspenders. He claimed that his dysphoria was so bad, he attempted to rape a woman in order to be sent back to prison, to be fast tracked for surgery. He was then invited to the House of Lords to talk about his experience of being trans in prison. A murdering rapist. They couldn't find a regular trans person?

I couldn't agree more, that was really bad judgement by Lord Patel. The grinning photo was a particularly horrible, imagine how the murder victim's mother felt?

My top theory is that no matter what you feel your true gender is or how you later identify, most people will have been raised as the gender that correlates to their sex and been conditioned accordingly by society. So trans women raised as men still have the same sense of male entitlement, the same confidence to advocate for themselves and belief that they should be in positions of authority. And likewise trans men raised as women are still more keen to stay quiet, blend in, not cause a fuss, and generally "know their place".
Spot on NordicNobody. It also highlights how very difficult the whole issue is.

TheGoalIs, insisting someone has sex with you despite their protestations is called rape.

Transactivists aren't fighting to legalise rape.

(I know I've kind of minimised the whole Cotton Ceiling thing, but as a lesbian Still gave it a pretty firm rebuttal to NannyOgg some pages back.)

Hence affirmation surgery, chest feeding, front hole. Midwifery forums having to constantly police their language for fear of offence.

These and the others you listed are totally legitimate complaints and if you were addressing those complaints to the people who had actually said those things, I'd be right behind you but they are not a good reason to justify attacking a whole community in retaliation.

Castration is medically and technically correct. However loaded it sounds.

Castration is the medically correct term for castration but it's not the name of the surgery that trans women undergo. Gender Confirmation/reassignment surgery is the correct medical term.

“The euphemism of affirmation surgery is deliberate. That's why Posie use the word castration. Castration is medically and technically correct. However loaded it sounds”

I get that. If she has thought that through and does it deliberately then it is a political act I guess. Disrespect is not always bad.

But for me and others to repeat it just casually -for effect - without having investigated the facts is wrong.That’s why I regretted repeating the term. I didn’t have enough information to justify a stance of deliberate disrespect.

castration is the medically correct term for castration but it's not the name of the surgery that trans women undergo. Gender Confirmation/reassignment surgery is the correct medical term

Honest question

Whats the difference?

I will not be clicking on any links

People are being censored when they are harassing and threatening, otherwise they are just being disagreed with.

No, they are being silenced/censored everytime they try to discuss this stuff. Hence (until the HOC event recently) having to meet in private, or else transactivists turn up to commit violence, or threaten the venues until they cancel.

Until very very recently any other forum bar MN would delete anything even slightly questioning of the transactivists narrative. A few forums have started allowing actual debate on the issue. But most, you still cannot question it.

Will look up on this Cathy Brennan, but rationalwiki is a extremely biased source. So will look at a variety of sources instead of just that.

Anyone behaving in that way is a dick. No arguments from me there. But there is constant behavior from transactivists. And 2 people who have (apparently) acted that way from 'the other side' and its proof that both sides are as bad as each other. I have personally been on the receiving end of a lot of death/rape threats, threats against my fucking children ffs, and I really am not extreme in my views at all. I would say I am fairly middle ground.

is it really a 2nd puberty?

When trans men start taking testosterone, their voices break, they start growing facial hair and, I'm told, they undergo other physical changed in the pants department.

It sounds like a second puberty to me but what difference does it make to anyone if that's what they choose to call it? It's not like it something any of us are going to spend much time discussing.

I do find it a little irritating when mother's refer to their male children as 'little man' but it's none of my business.

Still gave it a pretty firm rebuttal to NannyOgg some pages back.

I don't think she did. It seemed to be very much along the lines of 'people can still say no' which really simplifies it to a ridiculous degree.

Yes, it is rape. But transactivists make a habit of trying to shame lesbians into accepting dick.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community

Explains the whole issue pretty well tbh.

Also, apparently transwomen cannot rape 'cis' women. As the power balance does not allow it