‘Why is straight the default?’

[JeremyCorbansFancyWoman]

I want to start of by saying I’m not prejudiced. I 100% believe everyone has the right to be attracted to and love whom ever.

But, there’s a movie coming out called Live Simon or something and I’ve seen a tag line from it asking ‘why is straight the default?’

This is going to sound awful and I really don’t mean it to be but if we were being very basic that the meaning of life of everything is to reproduce, it’s a biological man and woman that can do so. (Obviously I mean without modern day ways of helping people have children). I also read an article that said a million people in the U.K. identify as LGB but that’s 2%.

I would make the assumption someone was straight until told otherwise. And of course I wouldn’t have an issue, but does anyone else think that straight IS the default?

(I tried so hard not to offend in this post so apologies if I did!)

I think default sexual behaviour in animals varies by species. For some 'try to shag anything that moves' may be the simplest description of default behaviour (bonobos, I'm looking at you).

I'd just like to pick up on an earlier post of yours Qvar which can be addressed quite easily by anyone who's read The Selfish Gene.

^All your ancestors, barring victims of rape, have been straight.
People who are homosexual have more difficulty spreading their DNA
Survival favours behaviour that leads to higher DNA dispersal rates
Homosexual behaviour doesn't favour high DNA dispersal rates
Ergo Homosexuality is not the default of any species.^

Firstly, all we know is that our direct ancestors had hetero-sex at least once, not that they were straight, or had any such social notion.

In 'The Selfish Gene' Dawkins explains how childless siblings spread their genes, by being helpful aunts and uncles.

Homosexual behaviour may help cement social bonds and dissipate aggression, so strengthen the chances of survival of babies born within a particular social group. As with bonobos.

Ergo, there is no reason to think that evolution would not favour homosexual behaviour amongst social animals.

Thus, homosexual behaviour may well be one default behaviour in humans and other animals.

what lottie said about the history of homosexuality in the UK (and the rest of Europe for that matter)

lesbian relationship in particular sailed under the radar for a long time because there was little pressure on anyone to declare either way

absolute eye opener for me to read the early 20th century letters of one of my country's most cherished writers: she and her friends discuss her relationship with another well-known female writer of the period in terms of an obvious relationship

they read us her books in primary school: didn't mention that she was a lesbian; the subtext given us (in the 1970s) was that she probably wasn't attractive enough to find a husband as she had a slight disability

I've seen photos of the woman she did attract- and she was a stunner!

and, again, what lottie said about the homosexual gene thing only working if you're thinking in binary terms of gay-straight with nothing in between

and of the only biologically successful behaviour as being directly reproductive rather than social

in order to reproduce you first need to survive

socially cementing behaviours do just that

which seems to have been part of what Athenian homosexuality did: provide young men with the protection and training to grow into successful reproducing adults

Evelyn exactly. It was an application to work for the police. (I got it) :)

Regarding what Dawkins said about helpful aunts and uncles, made me think of the gay couples I know who are now adoptive parents. As said already, in order to reproduce, we as a race need to survive.

Yes, Dawkins was talking about close relatives and genes as the selection mechanism - so the uncles' and aunts' genes were passed on via their nieces and nephews - not race or 'the species' but, the idea that having a few 'spare parents and helpers' around to assist the bio parents and take over if they were unable, is the same.

That's what I mean yes.. evolution is still occurring after all.

congratulations on the job StickyPlum

All your ancestors, barring victims of rape, have been straight

Absolute codswallop.

Having heterosexual sex once does not make someone straight. This is also ignoring that there is a whole spectrum of human sexuality, including bisexual.

All your ancestors, barring victims of rape, have been straight
Homosexual people can freely consent to hetrosexual sex if they wish. You're also ignoring the rather large group of bisexual people, who may well have been parents.

"Of COURSE 2 gay people cannot reproduce!"

Some people on here need to watch Cage aux Folles. Whose son is Jean-Michel?

User149 you are incredibly naive to think that just because someone hasn't declared themselves as gay or bisexual, then they are 100% heterosexual.

Same here. I am middle aged, and have lived in a number of different towns and cities, and countries over the last 30-40 years, and I can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of gay people I have actually known personally.

But that's just your experience. In the last 5 and a half years (how long I've been doing current job) I can think of, off the top of my head, at least 15 gay people including myself that have worked in my direct team. These aren't people I've sought out, just people who have happened to be colleagues. My team had been various sizes between 30 and 65 people at different times, a fair amount of movement, maybe 150 during that time. I'm amazed you have met se few!

I've got a few gay relatives and gay friends, plus I've had a same sex relationship myself. I still think heterosexual is the majority and the default in the way that you're more likely to assume someone is straight before you would think they were gay without knowing anything to influence the decision.

Same here. I am middle aged, and have lived in a number of different towns and cities, and countries over the last 30-40 years, and I can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of gay people I have actually known personally.

But how do you know people you interact with aren't gay if you haven't asked them, unless you're assuming people are straight unless they say otherwise?

Theoretically it's a Schrodinger issue - until they confirm their sexuality people are both homo and hetero sexual - but people tend not to think that way and instead assign people to be straight as the default.

I interact with a lot of people on a daily basis, some of whom I know are heterosexual and some I know are homosexual, but I only know their sexuality because we have had discussions about partners/families etc.

There are others who could be gay or could be straight but I dont know for a fact either way. The point is that most people will assume someone is straight until they "come out" as gay because being straight is seen as the default.

I was listening to Radio 4 today - discussing language and 'norms'.

When did you decide to come out as straight?

Have you ever been to a straight club?

How many straight weddings have you been to?

We use the word 'gay' in those statements regularly - because being straight is the default. Maybe we should use words like 'straight quarter', straight wedding...

I think perhaps the more important question here is “why yet another bloody gay coming out movie?” It’s been done to death.

TrappedInSpace

You think that not assuming anything is narcissistic? You’re kidding right?!

Do you know what a narcissist is? Odd comment.

It was the idea of expecting that in everyday life other people need to take time to hold off making assumptions while the centre of attention reveals their life/ identity..

It can seem a bit "me , me , me."

I think straight has to be the default, the vast majority of people are straight (unless you live in coronation street that is where the writers seem obsessed with gay story lines). I would always assume someone to be straight unless it’s very clear they are not. But I really question the whole 1 in 3 men are gay thing that was pushed for so long. I always think with any pressure group representing any minority they always fuck around with statistics to try and increase their group size to try and give themselves more power

I don't think the majority would be straight if we didn't live in such a straight world. Not necessarily would they be gay either, but its a wide spectrum and many who look upon it as abnormal may not do if it wasn't viewed as abnormal

What I'm hearing from teenagers is that they are actually experimenting a lot more with bisexuality- and why ever not? Does no one any harm and is unlikely to render the human race extinct if it hasn't in the past.

Stickyplum exactly. Well said. Not sure how many of you watched celeb big brother this year but it was very interesting for topics of sexuality etc.
Basically a straight lad Andrew had a bit of a crush on a drag queen called Courtney who is Shane out of drag. dressed as Courtney he really did pass for a beautiful woman and it was clear Andrew as a supposedly straight man was confused by his own feelings towards Courtney and then towards Shane. In a very open convo one night he said something along the lines of sexuality is so black and white for many people, and if there were absolutely no "rules" or guidelines or preconceived ideas of who should be attracted to who and labels etc, then the world would be a very different place. If we literally didn't have those ideas in our heads. And I completely agree. There'd be so much more going on than just 100% straight, 100% gay etc.

I wouldn't even necessarily say younger generations are experimenting rather they're just going with whatever is natural and trying not to think too much into it and over analyse everything which I think is great. This is why I do question the 2% LGB statistic because I think many people would identify as straight just because they've only ever been with someone of the opposite sex and never allowed themselves to explore or act on their feelings. I know so many people who've only ever been with the opposite sex (I'm almost 26) but are very blasé to the idea of being with another man/woman should those feelings arise.