‘Why is straight the default?’

[JeremyCorbansFancyWoman]

I want to start of by saying I’m not prejudiced. I 100% believe everyone has the right to be attracted to and love whom ever.

But, there’s a movie coming out called Live Simon or something and I’ve seen a tag line from it asking ‘why is straight the default?’

This is going to sound awful and I really don’t mean it to be but if we were being very basic that the meaning of life of everything is to reproduce, it’s a biological man and woman that can do so. (Obviously I mean without modern day ways of helping people have children). I also read an article that said a million people in the U.K. identify as LGB but that’s 2%.

I would make the assumption someone was straight until told otherwise. And of course I wouldn’t have an issue, but does anyone else think that straight IS the default?

(I tried so hard not to offend in this post so apologies if I did!)

Trapped

Can I join the over 45’s please? I’m not but I got the reference!

Some replies on this thread are ridiculous,and make me sad.

it isnt about figures. As a pp said, those figures will not be accurate given non straight people remain to be marginalised. People will not tell the truth, especially the older generation. And this thread is a symptom and example of why.
I thought I was straight for many years and have had straight relationships. Why, because society is straight. The options of not being although they existed, wouldn't have occurred to me as a young woman. That world was different and my family saw (see!) It as very weird. Society is geared toward straight.
Back to statistics, I put 'straight' on a job application recently. A family friend works in HR at the place I applied at. I might be part of the straight statistics! And I cant lie straight in bed.
Many people are straight identifying but had society not been so straight, who knows if that would still be the case. I would hypothetically say no, given my personal experience. And yes, my family would disown me if they knew. My partners family haven't spoken to her in17 years. Homophobia remains and is going nowhere unless people adopt a more reasoned approach.

You had to put your sexual orientation on a job application StickyPlumb ? Isn't that illegal?

"Heterosexual is certainly the majority position, but it's arguably nature's choice (so not a default) so that our species (and every other) can reproduce and keep the species going."

Did you read my posts? There is absolutely nothing that suggests that either end of the spectrum, wholly straight or wholly gay, is the majority position in societies where homosexuality is not condemned by society.

And absolutely nothing to suggest that the species cannot be kept going perfectly happily by people who also sometimes, or at other times of their lives, have gay sex.

Quite a bit of evidence for bisexuality in other species, rather less for homosexuality-only. But that may be because of research methods: it is obviously a lot easier to observe a pair of male lions humping each other on a number of occasions than to observe them 24/7 in the wild throughout their entire lifetimes to see that they do not also mate with females.

Evelyn there was a 'prefer not to say' option which would have still got me into difficulties had it been exposed to my family.

You understand that humping is a dominance behaviour in both felines and canines, right? Lions being feline ....?

That is shocking, StickyPlum. But then again doesn't surprise me really.

Just googled and saw that it isn't, data collection to ensure non discrimination. But if they didn't know they couldn't discriminate. Seems a bit circular... Employers can't discriminate on the basis of maternity and can't ask whether you are pregnant, but they can't discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation but are actively encouraged to ask about that on applications.

Surely it would make more sense to collect the data after issuing the job offer? Then the candidate would know straight away if the offer was revoked on the basis of the data - there is no way of knowing whether your data is the reason you didn't get an interview at all...

Have your ancestors all been rude and ignorant or is that a more recent thing?

No, they're not Passive Aggressive either - just say what you mean you snidey prick.....

This is mostly a linguistic issue. 'Default' does not mean 'majority'.

Also, default is more commonly used as a verb. You fall back on a default position. Your phone defaults to factory settings.

You can recognise that heterosexuals are a majority without ever defaulting to an assumption that any given individual is heterosexual. You could instead maintain an open mind and wait to be told.

I think the film's strapline could be understood as 'why do people always assume'?

You can't describe a natural variation as 'default' there are more women the men in the world are we the default gender?

There are more men than women in the world if we’re talking worldwide.

I do think that most people on here would assume until told otherwise that a poster is a straight woman as the mumsnet demographic is white/straight/female/middle class/London or South East centric/mid-thirties and up, etc. Obviously there is a much bigger variety than that here, which I am glad for, but that is the main target audience for this site. It’s just human nature to assume the default, it’s an assumption one makes in a microsecond. How can you change that?

Did you read my posts?

Yes I did. I still think heterosexuality is the majority condition.

So there.

Yes, absolutely lottie this is a semantic issue as I wrote above, and agree that assumed would have been a better strapline.

An analogy (almost).

Omnivory is the majority diet in the UK. Vegetarians (and people with other specific diets) are a minority. You will be a far better host and friend if your default catering and restaurant-booking position is always 'food suitable for everyone', not 'food suitable for omnivores'.

If you start with 'suitable for everyone', the omnivores can add things or choose the meaty options and everyone gets a good dinner. If you start with 'suitable for omnivores' and expect the vegetarians to make do, eat substitutes and work around you, they'll get some terrible meals.

The analogy doesn't work in as much as you are not a provider of sex in the same way you may be of food - but in terms of attitude and expectation, when talking to people, it works.

...and omnivores do eat vegetables of course. It's not a perfect analogy.

lottie that analogy doesn't work does it? Or if it does it discredits the idea people should not assume heterosexuality rather than supports it surely?

Or are you saying you should cook a vegan, gluten free, paleo, nut free, other possible allergen free, organic meal (what would that even be? An apple?...) if you invite friends over instead of just ask them whether there is anything they don't eat or assuming they'd say if they were a gluten free vegan with a nut allergy...?

Also, for those equating sexuality with reproduction, it might be interesting to find out what Ancient Greek men thought was the normal and majority thing to do sexually.

Or perhaps read a bit about the history of homosexuality in the UK. It hasn't been an 'identity' for very long at all. Men having sex with men and women with women has been going on for quite a bit longer. The need for the phrase 'men who have sex with men' in the 1980s demonstrates that the 'identity' and 'action' conceptions of homosexual sex acts persist alongside each other too.

No, that analogy doesn't completely work. What it suggests though, is that if your default position is to think 'what would be suitable for everyone?' and always start from there, adding things that others will enjoy in addition, you will be better host than someone whose default position is to say 'omnivores are the majority, so I will assume omnivory'.

It's about having an open mind and always being aware that other people might not be the same as you, rather than starting from the assumption that as the majority are the same as you, that's what you should assume about anyone you meet.

You might be more willing to ask people outright about their diet than their sexuality but, the person who thinks 'majority equals default' would not think to ask. They'd just book the steakhouse or cook a meat-based meal.

It's not as simple as a binary straight or gay. Many are bisexual or bicurious, there is a large spectrum of human sexuality.

I don't see the issue - gay people still have to "come out" about their sexuality because it goes against the "societal norm" of being straight.

This is because people see straight as the default but it is such an ingrained assumption that people don't realise they have made it until someone actively tells them that they actually aren't straight.

There was a Heterosexual Questionairre developed by Rochlin in 1972 (so some questions are a little dated and some are outright offensive by today's standards!) that was intended to show people just how ingrained their "straight is the default" tendency is by highlighting the kinds of questions that homosexual people get asked that nobody would ever ask of a heterosexual person because it was seen as a choice or decision rather than being their natural orientation.

Heterosexual Questionairre - Martin Rochlin, Ph.D., 1972

1. What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

2. When and where did you decide you were a heterosexual?

3. Is it possible this is just a phase and you will out grow it?

4. Is it possible that your sexual orientation has stemmed from a neurotic fear of others of the same sex?

5. Do your parents know you are straight? Do your friends know? How did they react?

6. If you have never slept with a person of the same sex, is it just possible that all you need is a good gay lover?

7. Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality… can’t you just be who you are and keep it quiet?

8. Why do heterosexuals place so much emphasis on sex?

9. Why do heterosexuals try to recruit others into this lifestyle?

10. A disproportionate majority of child molesters are heterosexual… Do you consider it safe to expose children to heterosexual teachers?

11. Just what do men and women do in bed together? How can they truly know how to please each other, being so anatomically different?

12. With all the societal support marriage receives, the divorce rate is spiraling. Why are there so few stable relationships among heterosexuals?

13. How can you become a whole person if you limit yourself to compulsive, exclusive heterosexuality?

14. Considering the menace of overpopulation how could the human race survive if everyone were heterosexual?

15. Could you trust a heterosexual therapist to be objective? Don’t you feel that he or she might be inclined to influence you in the direction of his or her leanings?

16. There seem to very few happy heterosexuals. Techniques have been developed that might enable you to change if you really want to. Have you considered trying aversion therapy?

@Qvar

You understand that humping is a dominance behaviour in both felines and canines, right? Lions being feline ....?

I had a gay cat. He was definitely gay, would only mount other toms, a female in heat begging him for it resulted in him looking scared and trying to get away from her.

To be fair though he was quite unusual in a number of ways.

I have a lesbian dog too.

Homosexual behaviour in animals is pretty common.

I think the issue you 'don't see' melj1213 is the very issue. People might have assumed straight as default in 1972 but isn't it a bit tedious that they still do so now?

Also, I find it interesting that this 'straight as cultural norm' idea is quite recent and just another social fad, really.

Marriage and reproduction may have been majority behaviours for a long time but married people having homosexual sex, gay people having opposite-sex marriages, and people marrying but not defining themselves in terms of sexuality at all, at have been normal for a very long time too.

Sexuality as identity is a very modern idea.

Homosexual behaviour in animals varies by species but certainly isn't unheard of, however, heterosexual behaviour is the default.

@Qvar

Saying something isn't the default isn't saying it's bad.

Exactly!

straight HAS to be the default setting, because it's the only way we can reproduce.

@zzzzz

Don’t be silly. To reproduce you need eggs and sperm and a womb, it makes no difference who fancies who.

Do you seriously believe this shit you are spouting?

Or are you just taking the piss? Of COURSE 2 gay people cannot reproduce!

@thevanguardsix

It is true. A same sex couple can have a family. But they cannot do this without our default 'straight' biology. A man's sperm still needs to have a meet and greet with a woman's egg. And that's just the way the cookie crumbles. 'Straight' biology dictates how we reproduce. But our sexuality is much more flexible, as is our ability to have families.

EXACTLY. It's amazing the things people make up to try and support their (flimsy) argument.

@emberflames

What on Earth?? What shows have more gay people on than straight ??

Except I didn't SAY that! Quit making up stuff to suit your agenda.

I said there are a disproportionate amount of non-straights on tv, compared to how many there are in real life.

@spam88

ember I guess you're more likely to have encountered people who aren't heterosexual perhaps? So it might have skewed your perception of how common/uncommon it is. I can only think of 6 people I've known over the years who weren't heterosexual (could well be more that I've forgotten, but certainly around 2% doesn't surprise me).

Same here. I am middle aged, and have lived in a number of different towns and cities, and countries over the last 30-40 years, and I can count on the fingers of one hand, the amount of gay people I have actually known personally.

For some reason though, some people get incredibly sniffy and huffy and offended when you say this. Can't change the facts. I HAVEN'T known many gays. If that upsets the fragile, and the professionally-offended, then they will have to suck it up.

@emberflames

The majority doesn't always mean 'default

Not always, but in THIS case it does. Heterosexual is the default setting. Deal with it.

emberflames

I just can't get my head around this insecurity that some straight people feel. Like they're some poor marginalised suppressed group

Nobody is 'feeling that' FFS! And nobody THINKS that! That's just in your head. So you can bore off with your silly, snide, sarcasm.

People saying 'hetero is the default setting' are not all homophobes. So certain posters here implying that, need to just fucking stop!