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Original poster

What kind of person jumps off a cliff with two children? **MNHQ warning: upsetting content**

553 replies

Leafyhouse · 06/03/2018 17:08

I've been really shaken by that story about the woman stabbed at home, and the father found at the bottom of the cliff with 2 dead children, 10 and 7.

Their home is about 400 yards away from me. I also have 2 DS's, aged 8 and 10. It's just made me sick to the core. Police and forensic officers all over this lovely house, in a really nice area - and for what? Why would someone do that? Have your own problems, but why take the children?

Just reeling at the moment, am going to hug my kids extra tight tonight. This one's just so very close to home.

OP posts:
Ennirem · 08/03/2018 12:40

It will emerge soon enough that his wife was either leaving him or having an affair. Family annihilation is something done by controlling, wicked men who can't bear their own inadequacy any longer but just as much can't bear the thought of anyone else being happy once they're gone, not even their own children. Evil, evil bastards.

gluteustothemaximus · 08/03/2018 12:46

Agree. Or she did something to make him jealous. My abusive partner terrified me on several occasions when he thought I had talked to another man

I believe Reeva had met up with an ex boyfriend just 2 days before (that Oscar claimed he was completely fine with).

So, yes, jealousy plays a big part as well.

DH can't work out why he killed himself though. I would say to avoid being sent to prison.

There's a sickening video via Facebook live of a man covered in blood after killing his wife, and warning other women to not irritate their husbands.

There's Jeremy McConnell (who put Stephanie Davis in hospital) claiming that he has been violent to women, and that DV was a huge part of their relationship, but he's not a scumbag Hmm

And all the comments that follow are just as sickening. 'She'll go back to him. They always do'

Sad

And the comments after the women with her children who died. 'why take the children' 'how could they take the children' - what about the poor woman?

Are we so expendable?

And DV escalates. For anyone who's been there. It doesn't start off with a beating to death on the first date. It creeps in. Bit by bit. Until you're so low with self esteem, so controlled by finances, so controlled by emotional abuse, that when the physical behaviour starts, you just don't have the strength. Or you have children, and you stay for them.

People have no idea. No idea at all (well, a lot of people on MN do get it sadly, as we've been there).

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/03/2018 12:56

the facts are: for the UK:

There were 9.9 offences of homicide per million population, and the homicide rate for males (13.8 per million population) was more than twice that for females (6.0 per million population).

Women were far more likely than men to be killed by partners or ex-partners (44% of female victims compared with 7% of male victims) and men were more likely than women to be killed by friends or acquaintances (35% of male victims compared with 13% of female victims).

again please don't read that people think women are expendable. we see and know that women (and more men) get murdered daily, we are used to adults getting killed, sadly.

but not so frequently children which its so shocking

He is a family ahhihilating evil evil man, and if there is a hell, I hope he is there.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 08/03/2018 13:01

and yes, he was probably abusive for many years and maybe when she got the courage - he flipped. To say its MH does a real disservice to people with MH issues,

reminds of Lundy Bancroft, these fuckers appear in every walk of life, every culture, every race. even a lovely suburban place like Twickenham

Morphene · 08/03/2018 13:52

elton That hasn't been my experience of being diagnosed with a MH problem. It didn't make me feel like my behaviour wasn't my fault, or that I was respectable...but it did enable access to treatment.

I do see what you are saying about crimes of passion being too close though.

Well either way we need treatment programs for people who commit DV....because otherwise they will do it again.

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 08/03/2018 15:13

They can put in place as many treatment programs and possible but the fact is they will not work if the person does not want to change

There is therapy that everyone has access to (though they may have to pay) but few men access this with really wanting to change themselves far too often it is used to try and further manipulate their partners

Morphene · 08/03/2018 15:25

indeed - which is why we have jail for those who won't change.

Morphene · 08/03/2018 15:25

or we would do if DV was taken at all seriously...

5plusMeAndHim · 08/03/2018 15:26

I guess having killed his wife and decided to kill himself, he was trying to save his children pain of losing both their parents

LimonViola · 08/03/2018 15:36

And the comments after the women with her children who died. 'why take the children' 'how could they take the children' - what about the poor woman?

It's nothing to do with women being expendable, why commentators focus on the kids. I think it's more to do with the fact that people recognise if were terrible in the home the adult woman had the chance to leave with and protect her children, whereas children are completely vulnerable and at the whim of their parents.

People feel saddened for the children as they had no say in this outcome and the two people supposed to love and protect them failed (IF there was abuse in the home and the woman stayed, no proof of that as far as I'm aware), either through inability to protect them from abuse or abusing them directly.

Kids aren't worth more than adults but most people feel more saddened at a short life being ended so brutally and so soon, before they had chance to grow up.

Itsnotmesothere · 08/03/2018 15:39

I guess having killed his wife and decided to kill himself, he was trying to save his children pain of losing both their parents
Shock
No. It was an act of unparalleled evil. If he was worried about sparing his children pain, he would not have killed their mother in the first

Itsnotmesothere · 08/03/2018 15:40

Sorry. I meant in the first place

Lizzie48 · 08/03/2018 15:45

What rot, @5plusMeAndHim if he cared about them at all he wouldn't have done what he did. It was a final act of retribution. Hmm

Helmetbymidnight · 08/03/2018 15:49

I guess having killed his wife and decided to kill himself, he was trying to save his children pain of losing both their parents

I think if any violent men read MN, they can rest easy. People will think the best of them no matter what they do.

RebelRogue · 08/03/2018 15:54

@5plusMeAndHim or here's a novel idea,how about not killing their mother in the first place?

WannaBeWonderWoman · 08/03/2018 15:55

What greater pain than being murdered by your own father?

bastardkitty · 08/03/2018 15:57

I guess having killed his wife and decided to kill himself, he was trying to save his children pain of losing both their parents

You can't really believe this schtick. It's an act of destruction and revenge.

Helmetbymidnight · 08/03/2018 16:08

he was trying to save his children pain

Aww, actually, he was lovely man.

Graphista · 08/03/2018 16:17

Shocking comments by some.

Blaming the mother for not leaving? Really?

A it's not that simple
B he'd likely have had unsupervised contact so could still have killed those poor children

Eltonjohnssyrup · 08/03/2018 16:19

morphene I think now a lot of the thinking has moved away from treating men to stop them to discouraging women from getting in relationships with violent men in the first place with things like Clare’s Law. Ideally their domestic violence would stop because they had no woman to do it to.

OddS0ck · 08/03/2018 16:37

I think if any violent men read MN, they can rest easy. People will think the best of them no matter what they do.

Amazing isn't it? A man murders his wife and children and other women are still finding excuses for him.

LimonViola When a woman is trying to leave an abusive husband is when she is in most danger of being killed.

As pp have said on this thread, some women stay with violent men so as to protect their children. They know it is very likely courts will give the man unsupervised access and she won't be there to protect the children.

Your post gives the impression that you think the women are to blame for the violence against them and their children, that they have failed to protect and love their children.

This is one of the most depressing and shocking threads I have read on MN.

LimonViola · 08/03/2018 17:25

LimonViola When a woman is trying to leave an abusive husband is when she is in most danger of being killed.

Yes, and when they're pregnant. Two women per week in England are killed by their partner or ex partner. I'm sadly fairly knowledgeable about domestic abuse/violence/homicide. I won't go into why that is.

Please show me where in my post I stated that I was discussing my beliefs? If you read it again you may notice I'm discussing why other people and commentators often feel worse for the kids than the adults involved. At no point did I claim I hold that view, I'm reflecting on what I know of how society as a whole tends to view domestic abuse.

Check yourself before leaping to conclusions and then casting judgment on what you think my views and opinions are.

bastardkitty · 08/03/2018 17:31

Also dismayed about the mental health comments, especially the ones about OCD. People with anxiety disorders agonize over and suffer with their rituals and behaviours. They know there is something wrong and often feel ashamed, fearful and desperate. There is literally no common ground with angry, controlling men who are so full of hate they destroy the people they are supposed to love and protect, because they cannot control them.

Graphista · 08/03/2018 17:34

I think it's more to do with the fact that people recognise if were terrible in the home the adult woman had the chance to leave with and protect her children whereas children are completely vulnerable and at the whim of their parents.

LimonViola · 08/03/2018 17:36

It's sadly true Graphista. Doesn't mean it's easy to leave or always possible, but it acknowledges the adult has at least a chance of doing so when the children have literally no agency in that situation.

It's not taboo to comment that women sometimes can and sometimes do leave abusive relationships. It's got to be better than acting like nobody ever can and nobody ever does.