What kind of person jumps off a cliff with two children? **MNHQ warning: upsetting content**

[Leafyhouse]

I've been really shaken by that story about the woman stabbed at home, and the father found at the bottom of the cliff with 2 dead children, 10 and 7.

Their home is about 400 yards away from me. I also have 2 DS's, aged 8 and 10. It's just made me sick to the core. Police and forensic officers all over this lovely house, in a really nice area - and for what? Why would someone do that? Have your own problems, but why take the children?

Just reeling at the moment, am going to hug my kids extra tight tonight. This one's just so very close to home.

Such an awful awful story, and not the first, patricide

Anytime I hear of these stories, my first thought is DV.

I wouldn’t initially think mental health issues becuase it usually isn’t, is it? It’s usually a man enraged by his partner leaving/ standing up for herself/ doing something to show him up/ whatever other spurious reason he comes with.

Not excusing what he has done, but there must be good reason, and does it ever occur to any of you that other people have lives that are not as easy as your own.

Just trying to think of all the good reasons for murdering your family. Of course so many people have awful things happening in their lives, but it doesn't mean they're good reasons for murder!

No parricide and it is just unbearable to give much thought to

I wouldnt immediately conclude simplistically that those who kill their children are evil, something has driven them to extremes

I always thnnk in these cases, why can the husband/dad not just kill himself - why take the mother and children too?

Poor woman and children.

Unfortunetely most of these cases are about control, not mental health. Poor children and glad the poor mother isn't alive to witness her babies having been murdered

Agree more likely to be abuse and control, the 'if I can't have you then no one can' attitude.

I am so sad for the victims (ie the mother and her children), I my heart hurts when I think what they went through.

Let’s cut to the chase most if not all of these cases involve an abusive arsehole murdering their spouse and/or kids in cold blood. There’s no reason why this one isn’t going to be like the countless ones that have gone before, no matter how much people try to make excuses for such wickedness.

there must be good reason

Oh do please explain what “good reason” there could possibly be for killing 3 people. I’m all ears.

I had a close relationship with a police officer a few years back. As we got to know each other better, I told him about leaving my abusive partner.

Explained what happened throughout, and how I told ex I was leaving, that I grabbed DS1 in the night, and when my friend came to get me, I went back inside to get nappies. Then I thought that was it. As I was now unable to leave. I ran upstairs and called the police.

I waited, watching the door. He was smashing things up. Then his sister called and that gave me enough distraction to run out the door.

15 miles down the road, and I looked to see my landline phone still gripped in my hand.

So I told this to my friend. He said I was so, so, lucky. Many women trying to leave, end up dead.

He went on to tell me about cases he’d seen, but I threw up mid chat, I couldn’t stomach anymore.

DV cases every week.

When will we wake up. Why don’t women’s lives matter?

There is NO "good reason" for him doing this.

Either (most likely) he was an abusive arse and another stressor was added like he was in trouble at work/financially, or she was about to leave him, meant he couldn't bear to lose "control" and acted in a way he THOUGHT meant he kept control.

OR (far less likely) he had a psychotic break.

A couple of years back, near where I live, a man was rescued from a burning vehicle. He was taken to hospital and the police went to his home to tell his partner what had happened. They found her body in the house.

A male friend told me about it, and I said right away that the man would have killed his partner and then tried to kill himself - he did die a few days later. My friend, like some here, said that I couldn't know that that was what had happened. The same friend later said that people in the town were speculating that the man's ex wife had killed the partner and then attempted to kill the man. I found it completely mind boggling that people would go to such lengths to deny the obvious and come up with far fetched and unlikely other theories to exonerate the man.

The police concluded, as I had and as they no doubt also had immediately worked out, that the man had murdered his partner and then himself.

That was when I found the website "Counting Dead Women".

kareningalasmith.com/counting-dead-women/

Another horrible murder of a woman was that of Rita King who was shot in the face by her husband in the lounge of her nursing home. At the time I was shocked and horrified by the number of people who posted on social media saying how much her husband must have loved her! To shoot her in the face! That's not love! I wondered how often in their married life poor Rita had been threatened with that gun by her husband.

Male violence against women.

We need to name the problem and work to address it. Starting with provision of excellent support services for women and children, sharing of information about violent men, and listening to what women are saying, believing them and standing with them.

but there must be good reason, and does it ever occur to any of you that other people have lives that are not as easy as your own.

Do you think that there must be a good reason for domestic violence if it doesnt culminate in murder? Must there be a good reason for "just" stranglation until she passes out but doesnt die? Must there be a good reason for deliberately causing your wife and children non fatal injuries.

& if a man has a hard life that gives him a "reason" to ruin his partner and childrens lives??

WHAT.THE.FUCK. please tell me I dreamt this thread

What kind of person

A man who fears losing control and acts out his ultimate act of control

Those poor little children and their mother I can’t even begin to imagine their fear it’s terribly sad their poor families having to deal with this and try and make sense of what has happened

And good excuse there isn’t one not one at all

My view of these men is that they are just plain nasty fuckers. If they can't get what they want they will take it, if they are faught they will fight harder, if they think they're los8ng their power they'll kill you.

They're not sick.

Not excusing what he has done, but there must be good reason

This kind of 'thinking' is pathetic. And disrespectful.

Honey, your daddy had a good reason to violently murder you...

There was a case of a women killing her two young children, and tryign and failing to kill herself
the thread on here was appalling. She is locked up in a secure unit, along with others who have done the same/similar

you dont seriously think people suddenly overnight become evil.
anyway, i doubt if you think that anyone is going to change your mind.

I hope that some of those posters who said 'desperate'(?) or 'ill health' will go on to read some of the links about family annihilators.

It really is case specific and sometimes you just need all the facts first.
In the Cavan case there was an initial feeling that it was a MH problem and there was outpourings of sympathy but over time it became clear that it was a controlling abusive man and didnt they even exhume his body so he was no longer buried with his family?
On the other hand I reacall there was another case where it came to light the couple had purchased coffins and left funeral arrangements for them and their children, in that situation there definately was a MH underlying issue.

I’ve been on countless DV threads where posters have been - rightly - outraged and horrified by the (usually male) abuser’s actions. Then when a (most likely) abuser goes on to kill a mother and children, then for some people it’s because “he was very mentally ill”. Bollocks. It’s about power and control and a wholly abusive personality. Don’t bring mental illness into it. That’s pretty repugnant towards those people who live with MH problems every day.

@Slartybartfast have you missed the numerous posts on this thread which explain that in the vast majority of cases when a woman kills her children and her self she 1) doesn't kill her partner, and 2) is genuinely suffering from mental health issues such as post partum psychosis or similar. There is no element of trying to control or dominate. That is why they are sent to secure units. They also generally try to do it in more 'gentle' ways like suffocation (with a pillow rather than strangulation) or drowning.

In instances where men kill their partner and children, in the vast majority of cases he is an abuser and the murder is the final act of control. The murders are violent (stabbing or cutting with knives, blunt force trauma with heavy objects such as hammers, strangulation with ligature or hands, pushing them off a cliff...). In the same way that a childless abuser kills his partner when she tries to leave, family annihilators decide either to murder their families and then kill themselves, or to kill themselves but to murder their families first. Either way it is a continuation of abuse and control, and that is why they are evil, disgusting, murderous bastards that deserve no sympathy. No one is suggesting that he just woke up evil.

as said, I believe it is Case Specific, and, I doubt here we will ever be fully aware of the facts.

It is case specific but there are clear patterns/indicators. I don't know why people are so determined to ignore this.