What kind of person jumps off a cliff with two children? **MNHQ warning: upsetting content**

[Leafyhouse]

I've been really shaken by that story about the woman stabbed at home, and the father found at the bottom of the cliff with 2 dead children, 10 and 7.

Their home is about 400 yards away from me. I also have 2 DS's, aged 8 and 10. It's just made me sick to the core. Police and forensic officers all over this lovely house, in a really nice area - and for what? Why would someone do that? Have your own problems, but why take the children?

Just reeling at the moment, am going to hug my kids extra tight tonight. This one's just so very close to home.

There are a lot of women that are too afraid to leave their children alone with an abusive man for any amount of time,so they never leave said man. As long as they're there they can mitigate,act as a buffer, keep the kids out of his way etc. There's more than one way of "staying for the kids".

Will be about control is my take on these situations, not mental illness.

My dc are 7 & 10 and this sickens me. To think what those poor innocent kids went through, possibly knowing their mother had just been killed. I’m sorry but he’s a sick bastard and if he wanted to take his own life then that’s his choice but to take another 3 people with you then that is beyond selfish and utterly sickening.

This was also in the news very recently:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/15/father-who-drove-four-children-into-a-wall-at-92mph-jailed-for-life

Why is it almost always men? Is it testosterone? Is it social conditioning, i.e. they find it harder to ask for help/show weakness/make friends to confide in/find that a father gets less support - until it's gone too far to undo the damage? Is it a genetic issue that is perhaps not found as frequently in women who have 2 X chromosomes to provide balance?

Utterly fucking tragic for the children

@MycatsaPirate I'm so very sorry. That's horrific. I don't really have any words to say how sorry I am about what happened to you and your mum.

Not entirely sure why your post got overlooked but it's a fast-moving thread.

Mental health is a bit of a red herring imo.
Three-quarters of people who complete suicide are not in contact with mental health services. And whoever said it’s because of waiting lists

blastoma
Have some fucking respect and don't use it as another thing to bolster your own self importance on the internet..

I think I could say the same to you, Blastoma. The original thread title was 'What kind of person does this?' i.e. how do we spot them, what can we do? Who are these people in our midst (i.e. just down my road - which is what shook me up so much)?

And please don't say, 'difficult circumstances', 'no easy solutions', 'multiple causes' etc. That's the sort of crap the coroner will come up with in 18 months time, and nothing will change.

I just think this is actually catching on as a trend now, rather like school shootings in America. I do hope not though - but only time will tell. Let's see if we're re-visiting this thread in 12 months' time.

Also shocked by mycat's story

Would you not have to be really quite unwell to murder anyone, whether there was a history of domestic violence or not? A sane person doesn't kill other people.

@rebelrosie12 lots of sane people kill others.

💐 for you and your sis @MycatsaPirate

blastomama is exactly right.

I cannot claim to have read all of this thread but what I have read shows many posts that are just plain distasteful at this time. Some are just nasty

I really hope that no one who is related to any of the victims of this tragedy read this thread.

I think perhaps what people are expressing very badly when talking about the possibility of MH are the possibility of a delusional psychotic killing and other people are being offended because they’re instead talking about MH in the sense of depression or personality disorder. So people are kind of at cross purposes.

It’s kind of a difficult distinction to make, it was discussed on here a couple of weeks ago in relation to Hannah Turtle killing her son and being described as having a personality disorder but not being mentally ill.

So some people have complete breaks with reality where they might perhaps think loved ones are possessed by demons or the family are being pursued by people who are going to torture then kill them. So in their altered reality what they are doing is genuinely not wrong. If these people survive their crimes they can be found not guilty by reason of insanity and committed to hospital rather than given a prison sentence because they are ill beyond the point of being responsible for their actions.

The other sort of MH issues in crime are those like the Hannah Turtle case or the Cavan case where the person committing the crime knows right from wrong, is in touch with reality and aware of what they are doing but does it anyway so there is definite ‘badness’ in the crime. Depression may be part of their decision to do that, but even though they’re depressed they’re still making an evil choice knowingly.

Having read that the father in this case has managed to hide what happened in Twickenham from the children and get them to Eastbourne with a reasonable degree of calmness I suspect it’s the second but I don’t know. Nobody knows.

I feel quite bad for writing that, because it is speculation. But I just wanted to try and get across that distinction about what people mean about MH being a factor because I think people are misunderstanding each other.

MycatsaPirate I also wanted to say how shocked and saddened I was by your story and to offer .

This thread makes me a bit sick tbh.

Do I love my kids? Fuck yeah.

Do I love my partner? Most of the time, but we have issues like most others.

Do I want what’s best for my kids? Of course.

Is life really panning out the way I want it to for any of us st the moment? Nope

Do I ever, in my darkest hours, think the world would be better off without me? Yes

Do I sometimes think that in that circumstance the kids would be Debs Ste’s, and actually better off not having to deal with the fallout for the rest of their lives? Yes

Do I say this as someone who has had to come to terms with a family suicide? Yes.

Not excusing what he has done, but there must be good reason, and does it ever occur to any of you that other people have lives that are not as easy as your own.

mycatsapirate how awful x

As to the person who suggested it might be a mercy the children were murdered that’s appalling! You don’t get to decide whether peoples’s lives are worth living!

MyCatsAPirate, I thought that I recognised your case and googled quickly to see. And there are literally dozens of cases it could be where a woman has been killed while her two small children are in bed because she was trying to leave a controlling, abusive partner. That’s utterly terrifying.

I’m so sorry you and all those other children have been through that.

Not excusing what he has done, but there must be good reason, and does it ever occur to any of you that other people have lives that are not as easy as your own.

No. There must not be good reason. There is NO good reason to kill 3 people. He may well have justified it to himself or he may even have had a psychotic break - it still isn't a good reason.

We all have shit in our lives and some people posting on here probably have more than most. Respectfully Mumsym if you sometimes think you would be better off dead and your children might also be better off not having to deal with the consequences of that then whether you feel now that you would never act on it, you are not alright and should be seeking help.

I just don't get the "have some respect". Respect for what or whom? A woman and 2 children were killed by their husband/father. Don't you think that is something a forum predominantly used by mothers/partners would be interested in? If the woman was killed by a stranger in a park and people wondered how he had gone so wrong in life and why aren't our parks safe anymore, no one would be going on about "the relatives" and "respect" It is only because this man was related to his victims that we are asked to shut up - and the old lie that domestic violence is somehow a different special type of violence continues. It isn't.

@Mumsymcmumface how come you don't mention your partner being dead(by your hand)?

there must be good reason

Nope

I read your title and my automatic answer was 'a man'. A violent, narcissistic, murdering man.
We need to acknowledge that, and treat DV and EA as serious crimes. I don't think it's a time for 'understanding'. It's a time to be angry that a man has taken and shattered so many lives yet again.

Not excusing what he has done, but there must be good reason

Why? Just because you can't fathom that someone would do this without 'good reason'?

What exactly counts as a 'good reason' to murder your family?

Mumsy if you ever get to feeling some other people would be better off dead at your hands then do the decent thing and get the fuck out of their lives

Good reason? No such thing when it comes to pushing your children off a cliff.