AIBU to not tip?

[Blackteadrinker77]

Why do we feel the need to tip waiters/waitresses and hair dressers but not other workers on the lowest wage?

I agreed with tipping before their pay was brought in to line with the NMW (as it was at the time) but now it feels wrong to tip them but you don't tip the cleaner who cleaned that restaurant who is on the same wage.

AIBU? Who do you tip and why?

Because again waiters are not getting union reps, promotions, recognition, MBE’s etc. We are the bottom feeders of society in many respects. Working very hard to give the best immediate straight to your stomach via a great experience, fast delivery etc etc while cleaning your loos, mopping up after your untrained kids and the rest. We do it because these jobs suit our lifestyles, family lives etc. A tip doesn’t have to be enormous. If you can afford to eat out you can afford to tip the people who serve you. It’s simple. Do you not tip your hairdresser, taxi driver, pizza delivery person and so on? It’s rude not to tip. It’s poor manners. I can’t believe you don’t understand this. I don’t tip my NHS receptionist because she is on a decent(ish) wage with benefits I won’t ever see and a pension I won’t ever have and please and thank you go a long way. She knows I appreciate her help but she doesn’t serve me for 3 hours. 6 minutes at the most in a conveyor belt service. Your argument is futile. Sorry but it is.

Not talking about McDonalds. I am talking about general servers in restaurants or cafes. Not mainstream outlets where I appreciate they do have promotional fast tracks etc.

Never did I say the job is menial. It’s on your feet spinning plates keeping everyone happy front-and back of house

I just don't see why waiters expect to be tipped when others just as deserving aren't and aren't expected to.

Because a bin man (say) is expected to take your bin, empty it and put it back roughly where you left it. He is not expected to chat about your day, about the rubbish in your bin or about how you got the bin to he kerb and will get it back. YEt as a server, thats what we are expected to do. For some reason people expect personal service from waiting staff and yet will decide that the service was crap because you didnt get your drink as fast as you wanted it because we were giving that same service you demanded to the other people in the dining room!

I actually agree that tipping should be scrapped because then serving staff could just get on with taking orders, bringing orders and clearing tables instead of pandering to people who think they deserve special server simply by virtue of the fact that they are paying the same as everyone else.

What PyongyangKipperbang said more eloquently than I.

You should be giving a good service anyway, not expecting a pat on the back and some extra pennies thrown your way because you're "doing your job right

Exactly the same argument applies to waiting staff in table service restaurants.

Someone upthread says that she and her DH gets around £1k in tips per month. It's not clear whether that is between them or each, but either way, that's an astonishing amount of money and about the same as the entire wage of someone working full time on NMW.

I can't see how anyone could argue that any level of restaurant service is worth that much more than the service provided by a fast food worker, someone working in retail or a carer, none of whom get a penny in tips.

DP used to work in a fairly high end bike shop and would spend ages helping people buy the right type and size of bike, with custom fit saddles, accessories etc, do all the bike to work paperwork and build the bike, and adjust it after they had ridden it for a few weeks, all of which could be an hour or more directly 'servicing' the customer, who had often spent thousands, all for a few pence an hour over NMW.

They did get given a few beers from customers on very rare occasions, but apart from that, that level of service got not a penny in tips, despite offering a personal direct service.

Still don't see the logic in waiting staff and hairdressers being deserving of often very substantial tips for meeting the basic expectations of their job.

I can’t believe you don’t understand this. I don’t tip my NHS receptionist because she is on a decent(ish) wage with benefits I won’t ever see and a pension I won’t ever have and please and thank you go a long way

An NHS receptionist probably earns less than £20k pa, which is probably a lot less than waiting staff once tips are taken into account. The pension they earn is paid for by deductions out of their wages and they also put up with a lot of shit from the public who see them as a barrier to being allowed a GP appointment at their convenience.

Not a GP receptionist.
Anyway it seems apparent that this is a dud subject because those who don’t tip feel it’s because they should tip everyone who has ever lifted a finger to serve or help them when it is known and globally accepted that you tip servers in certain industries because they don’t all earn £20k and above. Absolutely ridiculous. A server may only work one shift of 6 hours, 5 days a week taking home less than £960 a month plus their share of tips hardly equates to £20k a year!!!!

It’s your prerogative not to tip but again as I said please and thank you goes a long way.

In the UK I only tip waiters for excellent service and certainly not 10-15%. £5 on a family meal. I do it because I think staff are more likely to provide good service and I don't think they're paid enough.

I do in the states because that's sadly needed for a living wage although don't for bad service.

I tip my milkman and postman at Christmas but they're great and go the extra mile.

I have never understood this 10-15% figure. Where did that originate from? I know in the US anything below 15% is abhorrent.
Absolutely do not tip bad service here in the UK but be vocal as to what wasn’t to your expected standard so we can fix it for you there and then, comp you or escalate the matter. Our reputation is our livelihood.

@Obi1Kenobi

the figure came from the US.

A server may only work one shift of 6 hours, 5 days a week taking home less than £960 a month plus their share of tips hardly equates to £20k a year

So we should assume that waiting staff are working part-time, which they may not be, but need full time hours, which they may not, and throw them a load of extra cash, while an NHS receptionist (Afc band 2 or 3, £15k-£19.6k pa) is somehow more than adequately compensated?

Many carers will be on NMW, might want more hours, often don't get paid for travelling between clients and generally get treated appallingly by their employers and almost certainly earn a lot less as no tips than waiting staff working the same hours.

WhatToDo
I don't think being treated like shit is exclusive to fast food workers, it's hospitality and retail as a whole as they are unskilled positions so people just assume everyone is thick; restaurant staff often get asked what they do as "proper" jobs. I find it amusing as I had the best exam results in school but didn't want a "proper" job because the options open to me seemed boring. I dropped out of uni and went into management. A friend of mine was a floor manager in McDonald's all through 6th form and is now a resident professor at some ivy league university. Hospitality is flexible and fun, I wear what I want, don't have to work 9-5 in an office and work with very interesting and diverse people who work hard.

McDonald's moving to table service is great but people still don't go there specifically for that, it's just a nice touch. Noone says shall we celebrate our daughter's 18th birthday at McDonald's or Burger King generally so no matter how they try to change that branding it will likely remain somewhere quick to grab food.

I always think Nando's is a bit of an interesting one. I wouldn't tip anywhere near as much there as other restaurants because it's not really table service, and in fact is probably comparable with McDonald's when you consider their new table service offering.

I think perhaps length of time spent with someone is a factor. I probably wouldn't tip a taxi driver taking me 5 minutes up the road after a cold night out when I can't be arsed to walk for example, but if I was using a taxi for an airport run or something a bit longer where we had a good chat then I would likely tip a lot. I'm not really sure of the logic behind it all though so it's interesting to read opinions.

I do agree, however, that some people tip and some don't - generally they are stuck in these ways so it tends to be a bit of a pointless debate.

Unihorn No, it’s not exclusive to fast food workers, but particularly in the restaurant trade there seems to be a hierarchy that they’re at the bottom of. As though somehow the person working in a five star restaurant is better than one working in fast food, which is simply not true.

I am similar to you in that I had the best results in school and was accepted to several universities, but that life wouldn’t have made me happy so I turned it down. My main focus in life is to be happy, and a crucial part of that is where I work.

Anyway it seems apparent that this is a dud subject because those who don’t tip feel it’s because they should tip everyone who has ever lifted a finger to serve or help them when it is known and globally accepted that you tip servers in certain industries because they don’t all earn £20k and above.

Obi1Kenobi Incorrect. I don’t agree with tipping anyone at all; they are paid a MNW to do their jobs and in the UK tips are not a necessary part of their wage.

I do believe, however, that if you’re going to tip, don’t be hypocritical and just tip certain sectors.

A server does not deserve a tip any more than anyone else in any other NMW job.

I completely agree OP

I do find the default 10% bizarre, because you can get such a variation in service in restaurants, that means an arbitrary % really isn't fair on those working in a cheaper place. My sister worked in a very swanky restaurant for years and estimated that her annual earnings were about £24k, purely because of the prestige of the wealth of the clientele.

I never tip a hairdresser, taxi driver etc. I expect them to do a good job for a price they've calculated to be appropriate, with profit built in. I do tip gig workers like Deliveroo riders, because who knows what their options are if they're on non-salaried work.

I always make sure I tip appropriately in foreign countries too, according to the local custom and pay types.

I do tip around 10% in the UK when I get good service.

Bankers get a bonus. Some people get performance related pay. Some people get tips. It's all the same I think.
I disagree with the rather smug notion of "civilised country" where people often are not paid the minimum wage. Its sometimes cheaper for owners to just pay the fines for illegal workers.
Its very naive to think that the UK is more civilised than its European neighbours. They hqve access to healthcare for a start. Nothing civilised about the NHS, if you want to tip, send in treats forthe poor staff instead.
(Doctors may not get tips but many have a private list)

when I get good service

What's good service? Whenever I see someone mention that and ask for an elaberation, it's usually what I would class as the bare minumum service you would expect in order for the business to function correctly.

Bankers get a bonus. Some people get performance related pay. Some people get tips. It's all the same I think.

But in those first two examples it is the employer making the decision and paying the money. It s an absurd thought to call customers mean, as some have here, for resenting having a large bill in a restaurant and then being guilted into making another percentage payment on top.The hospitality business should just pay its staff decently and stop relying on the top up from customers - the bill should be the bill.. It's a stealth subsidy to the owners

. And waiting staff need to stop feeding into this whole morally bankrupt system by halting considering themselves a special case, deserving of additional payments for doing the job that they are employed to do. It's a humiliating charade of suddenly being extra nice when the bill becomes due. There are plenty of other jobs where personal or individual service is involved and there is no concept of the customer being expected to top up payment.

And yes, I have been a waitress and a barmaid , and I have felt resentment or gratitude towards customers who tipped one way or the other, and I did rely on those tips to make up a decent wage. But it should not have been like that, my interactions with customers should have been about the job - Table 6 were nice and seemed to enjoy themselves rather than Table 6 were all smiles but f* them they left a crap tip. Or, worse, those people are awful but yay, they tipped well. It's not a psychologically healthy dynamic all round.

jasmin because some places they dont share out the tips-its not a legality they can do what they want (management with it)

I usually tip waiting staff, not any percentage, just what I can afford. Possibly less than 10%, which no doubt will appall Obi1Kenobi.

I am not a long time server but do it on and off to fit around lifestyle changes (kids etc) and take zero hour contracts to able to work when I know I have someone I trust whole heartedly to watch my kids. I get allocated shifts at the mercy of management. Luckily despite being older and not pally pally with the younger crowd (I am always older than the management) I get decent shifts and work damn aged for minimum wage, tips are a bonus not an expected but yes I do share mine. Sorry but I think it’s only fair. Not many people eat out anymore. Sign of the times.

I tip in restaurants - the amount reflects the service. If it is dire then £0, if it is good then 10-15% and 20% if exceptional. Good service can make or break a good meal IMHO. I don't tip every time I buy a coffee in a cafe though.

I don't tip anyone else - the only taxi trips I do these days are pre-booked works ones where we pay on account. I don't tip my hairdresser.

I do tip my cleaner at Christmas because I value her (and she undercharges).