AIBU to think Mumsnet need to revise their talk guidelines?

[abeautifulmess]

I have reported a number of threads recently and the mumsnet response has been 'we don't allow posts that break our talk guidelines' and nothing has been done when the whole thread has been attacking a particular (and vulnerable) group.

AIBU to question these guidelines and how they are applied?

Is it just me who thinks it's funnt how many threads have popped up of late seemingly doing any of the following:

• Claim MN is transphobic without ever clarifying what trabsphobia is
• Claiming an entire group of people are being attacked (when you only have to look at threads to see many people drawing a distinction between trans people who seek to go through transition and self id fools who think biologically a man is a woman with a lady penis)
• claims that having concerns about self id is trabsphobic
• claims that being gender critical is transphobic
• expressing reservations about medical interventions on children is
• expressing concerns about the silencing of debate, #nodebate and no platforming is
• expressing feelings that Riley Denis was wrong to say lesbians should have sex with a biological man and if they don't they are bigots is transphobic
• claims that anything other than unquestioning acceptance of self ID is transphobic

Yes tjere have been expressions I don't personally like (e.g. man in a dress) but when basic biology is being denied it is important to be able to differentiate between self ID folk and actually normal transmen/women who just want to get on.

TRAs don't like people drawing that distinction though.

Interesting that now MN is acting as a way to publicise their agenda rather than being confined to small chats, they're going after MN by arguing it (as an entity) must be transphobic.

These TRAs really can't stand discussion or debate because when people realise the difference between normal trans people and these raging TRA fanatics the house of cards will come tumbling down

What's going on here is a good number of genuine, well-meaning "we just want to debate the issues" people are lying down with some bona fide transphobes, all the while covering their eyes and ears like the three wise monkeys so they don't have to believe the nature of their bedfellows.

Christ, There is a trans person here on this very thread, ( TRUSCUM) saying that that they have witnessed zero Transphobia here, and still that is not good enough is it? Are those of you crying “transphobia” “vile” “disgusting” “bigoted” etc... even reading the posts on this thread? Never mind the oh so ‘scary’ feminism transthreads?

Has anyone said it's that rife Truscum? I'm just saying I've seen it. I'm surprised that at least one poster has said it never, ever happens.

Truscum, I appreciate your voice at MN and I'm glad you are comfortable here.

Make that two posters...

Have you seen some of the bedfellows on the self-ID side Xulishesthepilot?!

Oh - and I'm another one who would like someone to point out the transphobic theads to me.

I keep reading about how MN is a hotbed of transphobia but I never see anyone produce evidence to back up that assertion.

I've seen them! I'm not going to go around saying there are no misogynists on Twitter though am I.

READ MY POSTS XULI

I havent said it NEVER happens, I have previously said I have not personally witnessed it and neither has tru who is actually TRANS!!! Thank you though for proving my earlier point about you and some others clearly not bothering to fully read the whole thread.

I said I've not seen transphobia.

A phobia is an irrational fear.

There's nothing irrational about fearing men are taking over, invading or erasing all women's spaces, sports, education and protections.

Speaking the truth should never, ever be reframed as an 'attack' so that the truth can be suppressed.Facts are not attacks.

This - far too many people cry "attack" when they hear something they don't like even when half the time it isn't an attack at all. Just a differing of opinion.
It seems to be a trans thread,so if it's about that, how on earth is it being discriminatory (which some would say is) to say I am NOT a cis woman, I am a woman - call yourself whatever the hell you like but you don't get to re-label me?
Not to mention it's completely contradictory because in one breath it's all "blah blah, we're all the same" then in the next feeling the need to other yourself by differentiating between actual women!
How can you compare it with black You could only do that if a white person identified as black then went to black only spaces and called others there cis black
Exactly!

It's not "phobia" because the fear is completely legitimate, is that what you're saying?

That was to Idontdowindows

To come back to the original OP, I actually think MN go waaaaaaaay over the top in shutting threads down. It is partly why I come here less frequently, because some weeks I have been on no less than 3 threads which have been closed down simply because people were debating a contentious issue, or the original OP was unhappy at the direction the thread went - usually because they were called out by posters for say, being unreasonable or they got upset/got an answer they were not ready for - or because other posters found the subject off-putting (and sometimes that threshold has been low)

I have myself reported in the nearly 10 years I've been on MN around 4 times, each time only because of outright bullying by posters on others. I let anything against myself stand. Just use the hide thread. Why more posters don't just do that beats me.

On the subject of Transgender I have not seen any transphobic threads save perhaps one around 2 years ago. I'm not sure if it was shut down as I didn't continue following it. I knew next to nothing about the issues around self ID, but am aghast that it isn't being debated more and am immensely grateful for the debate being allowed on MN. I think if censorship were to occur on this issue here, then it would lower the site further in my estimation.

Don't get me wrong, I THOUGHT I saw transphobia when i first looked at some trans threads because in my head and experience, transpeople were men and women who had gender dysphoria who went through assessmemt and transition. Regardless of my views on gender (I'm gender critical), I always defended their right to do that and be free from harrassment. I still do defend that right and will stand with them.

What i realised the more I read is that actually normal trans people aren't the issue and when people are discussing trans issues, most are not saying individual transpeople are a problem. They were actuay saying that self ID is a problem, that women shouldn't be told to step aside so a biological man with no transition can mansplain womanhood to them. They were pointing out that under self ID women and girls lose safe spaces and under self ID we have biological men competing in sport as women and taking titles that don't belong to them.

As soon as I realised there is a MASSIVE difference between your perfectly nice trans people and transwomen we've been living alongside for years and this new breed of radical TRA, I immediately understood the problem.

That isn't the definition of transphobia any more than homophobia is a literal fear of gay people. Transphobia is dislike of or prejudice against trans identifying people.

Transphobia is dislike of or prejudice against trans identifying people.

Even using this definition I have yet to see any transphobic comments or threads that are allowed to stand on MN.

Posters have no problem with trans identifying people as a group - they do however have a vehement dislike of trans identifying people who behave in a bullying, aggressive way, and who try to shut down reasonable debate.

Just exactly the same as they would presumably have a problem with anyone who behaves in a bullying, aggressive way & who tries to shut down debate.

Identifying as trans is not a free pass to behave like a twat.

I knew this would be a pro trans thread before I even fucking opened it.

I haven’t RTFT, but I’ll wager someone has asked someone to post examples of a transphobic thread and none has been produced yet.

Oh yup. On this page, someone else has asked/confirmed the same thing.

If you believe these women on MN are transphobes and they are attacking all trans people then you just aren't listening to the trans people and their families who post here. Trans activists are harming trans people. I am as far from transphobic as it gets, my child is trans and I would do anything to support them. These women here have been so supportive and have helped me and my child so very much since this journey began. These conversations must be had and it's impossible anywhere else. Advanced search my posts to see what my child was put through by trans activists. These people don't care about normal trans people with actual dysphoria.
Please educate yourself about their agenda and start supporting people like Truscum and my child instead of the TRA!

Nicely said @WappersReturns.

Sadly the people who yell 'transphobic!' will simply ignore you just like they always do when a parent of a trans child or a transsexual posts.

Totally agree, OP. The TERFs are here are a disgrace and I wish MN would tell them to bugger off.

The TERFs are here are a disgrace and I wish MN would tell them to bugger off.

You want all the amazing trans people who post here to shut up and bugger off? You want all the amazing and strong parents of trans children here to bugger off as well?

Bloody hell that doesn't sound very supportive for me. In fact, I would say it's borderline transphobic