Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Cultural misappropriation and hair

585 replies

meandthem · 03/03/2018 01:33

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Beetlejizz · 06/03/2018 11:40

I have never met a single one who didn't, and of course Italy has something of a racism problem. Which is ironic because there are plenty of Italians with skin darker than some light skinned black people and certainly darker than many Arabs, but there you are.

It's true that the Italian immigrants didn't necessarily when they first came to the US, and there's been some interesting work done on the whitening of Italian Americans. I suspect this is what you are referring to. Chuck Nice referred to Italian Americans a while back as 'n***s with short memories'. He had a point. And of course a lot of them would have been southern Italian and Sicilian, so olive skinned.

Italians living in Europe now though, not so much.

Beetlejizz · 06/03/2018 11:41

And thank you for the nice words about my kids. They are of course, in my highly unbiased opinion!

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 20:45

I am not sure the answer to cultural appropriation is to stop white people wearing black hairstyles though. I think cultural appropriation is sort of a legitimate thing but for me what is important is that society gets rid of its prejudice against black people eg that white people stop acting like Kim Kardashian's box braids are some new trend and acknowledge that black people made this style well known. And even more importantly, to stop telling black people their locks look scruffy while at the same time saying white pwople with locks look cool. Either say dreadlocks on ANYONE are "scruffy" or say dreadlocks on ANYONE are "cool."

The problem is that there are still negative attitudes towards black people deeply ingrained. Whether white people wear locks or braids r not is not going to change it, sadly.

I think black models and hairdressers and fshion designers need to be promoted more than they are being. Recently an afro hair products company came under fire, and rightly so, for only using white models to model their latest product. There is nothing wrong with white people using afro products at all.Many of us curly or wavy (anyone whose hair is type 2b upwards really) gals use them regardless of colour. BUT as the black people are the ones who need and use these products the most, they should be the ones advertising it? Or at least, a mix of black and white or Asian models. Black people should be allowed to have something where they are the focus, for once.

I reserve my right to wear or condition my hair the way I see fit but please, when we see a White or Asian celeb wearing braids or a weave or whatever, let us not act as though they have discovered some funky new style, as though their look hasn't been modelled on something black people have been wearing for centuries. Also, white hair, even if thick and curly can rarely cope with frequent braiding. The coarsest and curliest of caucasian hair is still a completely different texture to afro.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 20:50

I will say though, that if White people are called out for wearing braids or locks, then why should it be ok for Asian or Arab people to wear them either?

scottishdiem · 07/03/2018 21:19

White women getting pissed that black people claim certain styles.

At the same time

Large number of women getting pissed that men can put on a dress and claim a new gender....

The two are actually not compatible. Either we are a species with no differences so things like hairstyles have no meaning, clothing has now meaning, appearance has no meaning

Or we do have differences and some of those differences define the history of one group, define differences between groups and power is reflected in those differences.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 21:41

scottishdiem True. Those who are not black (Or Irish/Romani/Jewish.Romanian/Polish etc) do have more power and privelege racially.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 21:42

I still think it is weird that Bruce Jenner is acceptable but Rachel Dolezal is not.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 21:46

BTW, just to clarify, am not saying Asian and Arab races do not experience any racism in the UK, they do, but the racism against blacks is very structural and runs very deep. Any race can be called a racist name or treated unfairly but black people suffer being discriminated against in jobs in far greater numbers than non-blacks and are statistically more likely to be treated unfairly by the criminal justice system. It is a structural power thing. Having said that, no racism is acceptable.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 21:49

I have trouble believing that people like Bruce Jenner are not extremely priveleged. He is not on the dole or living in a society with an oppressive government. He is not a refugee fleeing war or religious persecution or domestic violence.

SpringHen · 07/03/2018 21:52

I still dont get how celtic style dreads are not okay on white people.

I have never seen a black person sporting celtic style dreads, braids or hair jewellery/wraps.

Its very distinctly different: much looser and most distinctly non-uniform. Black dreads and braids are much more uniform, tight and neat.

SpringHen · 07/03/2018 21:54

Also celtic style dreads usually have a mix of dreads, plaits and wraps all at once.

Black hair styles are usually one or the other, not a mix.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:02

SpringHen yes. they are not the same.

Also do we not all have racially mixed ancestry if we go back far enough? How do those of us who would be considered white know for sure we do not have some black ancestry way back? In the US, being black is determined by one drop rule. So if you were 1/32 or 1/16 black it would still count. Seeing as without DNA testing none of us know for sure?

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:04

I think racism is stupid because we are all human and we have more in common biologically and culturally than not. Which is why I believe we should be allowed to wear our hair as we like it but at the same time let us celebrate the diversity of our heritage as humans. Let us share from each other's cultures. We do it with food, so why should hair be any different?

SpringHen · 07/03/2018 22:17

I mean can you seriously say you look at this and think "copying black people" and not pagen/celtic??

i.pinimg.com/736x/34/c3/00/34c300b032036928bd343354b3d607af.jpg

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:32

SpringHen I have just looked at the link and I can't. You're right. Although I am not sure if those are the kind of dreads people are complaining about. I think they are concerned about the hair that is tightly braided all over?

Some years ago I saw a really wel balanced article written on cultural appropriation and hair. It explained the real issues and re-iterated that no one is seriously suggesting white people stop braiding their hair or wearing afros, just to stop acting as though black people have not always worn those styles and to appreciate that hair is a political thing for black people. It was a great article, really wish I could find it.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:35

I must admit I would not wear a Bindi or a Native Chief's headpiece as fashion accessories as those have deep spiritual significance to those who wear them. I expect Christians/Jews may feel the same way when they see an atheist wearing a crucifix/Magen David

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:39

I have less symapthy for this kind of rubbish though: www.claremontindependent.com/pitzer-college-ra-white-people-can't-wear-hoop-earrings/

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 22:41

My surname suggests I have Romani ancestry so I personally am gonna keep on rocking those hoop earrings anyway LOL

FifiVoldemortsChavvyCousin · 07/03/2018 22:43

SpringHen

I would never in a thousand years have thought to call those dreadlocks.

Most of her hair is still ‘silky’. I don’t know what that’s called, but if it’s called dreadlocks then it’s the same word for something only similar.

mirialis · 07/03/2018 22:43

We do it with food, so why should hair be any different?

Because I don't remember any black woman on this thread saying they were discriminated against at work for the type of food they choose to eat rather than they type of hair they have no choice but to have???

Gilead · 07/03/2018 22:49

We don't do it with food. We do have and share food from different cultures, but we don't use the food as a means to discriminate, to other, to silence, to shame, to control.

SpringHen · 07/03/2018 22:55

I would never in a thousand years have thought to call those dreadlocks

Theyre not they are braids
And typically for celtic/pagan styles they are not all over or uniform

Celtic dreads are often worn the same way: a mix of dreads, braids, wraps and "normal" hair.

According to a PP on here, this messy "hippiesh" way of wearing dreads or braids mocks black styles and "others" them, making black syles look dirty and alternative, when in fact the messiness is deliberate and the non-uniformity is part of the style, and white hippy/pagens often wear this type of style as a way to identify with their own roots, not someone elses.

There are many who say that dreads on white people are never okay. But how is it appropriation if it is your own heritage you are trying to emulate? Some white dreads & braids are just that.

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 23:02

Gilead But those white and asian people wearing black hairstyles aren't the ones discriminating . We are the ones who appreciate black culture and imitate it because we like it

DieWinteresse · 07/03/2018 23:03

FifiVoldemorts and SpringHen Suddenly occurred to me that it must be cultural appropriation for anyone who is a non-Celt to wear that hairstyle then?

SpringHen · 07/03/2018 23:05

See cornrows and similar tight braid styles are without a doubt a black style. A white person wearing cornrows is copying a style theyve seen on black people.

But I dont agree that dreads are. Ive seen more hippy/pagan dreads than rasta dreads IRL. I wouldnt be copying black people if I got dreads or appropriating rastas. I would be copying my hippy/pagan/celtic friends as I associate people who wear dreads with things like solstices and paganism

Swipe left for the next trending thread