Cultural misappropriation and hair

[meandthem]

Am I being unreasonable to object to ethnicity being a factor in respect of what hairstyle choices women are "allowed"? I am pissed of that it now seems acceptable for some styles to be considered cultural misappropriation. What happened to the sisterhood and feminism and women's right to do what the hell we want with our hair!

"Have you talked to Doreen Lawrence? Have you spoken to any of the government enquiry and advisory bodies? Have you seen the membership of Britain First pages on Facebook, and their ilk?"

You may get areas where there are people doing nasty things because they ARE racist but in society as far as where I live in the uk its frowned upon I dont think its fair to write off the whole of the uk as racist when it isn't.
As for me talking to doreen lawrence and the government, why would I need to I live here, there are humans of all colours living and working where I live. I say humans because thats what we all are, Regardless of if I was ever found to be related to a slave owner that wouldnt be my fault, I didnt do what they did I just have the same colour skin. They arent me.
Britains first: Do you actually believe everyone in the uk follows them (this is where I wish I had the crying with laughter emoji)
Its actually a ridiculous view to assume that because some people are racist that everyone must be.
Its the same with everyone putting people into groups of black, white, mixed race its all a load of rubbish if you actually tested your dna you would find that you are a mixture of different origins (it would be very rare to be just English and white)

Can you explain who/why? Because it baffles me.

I accept that black women have/do face discrimination for their natural hair and fully agree that's wrong. I don't understand what that has to do with Kylie Jenner wearing two dutch braids and calling them boxer braids (probably by accident) or me braiding my daughter's hair to prevent tangling and breakage.

When and how did something that was done across the globe by all/most cultures become something that could only be enjoyed by certain cultures?

Let’s move away from hair! A better example is seeing white MC boys ape the mannerisms of black young men portrayed in the media
Bro
Fam
Hip hop lingo etc

In the full knowledge that they would switch it off when they go to a job interview - and get the job (being a white MC male)
Whereas a young black male who maybe naturally has that lingo to a degree would maybe NOT get the job if he used that language - due to stereoptyes about gansta culture . Etc

It’s a bit galling really

Thank you Pretty, the racism my dd and I have experienced all our lives minimised beautifully there. Who the hell are you to tell me that it doesn't exist? Crying with laughter when Britain First members exist. Well good for you.

Gilead why are you making things up?
I never said it didnt exist did I?!
Also never mentioned anything about you and your kid, Your quite desperate to be offended arent you.

The difference between dreadlocks on straight hair and 4c hair is that on straight hair, to get them you need to neglect/backcomb/wax the hair. On 4c hair wash and towel dry = basic dreadlocks.

It’s ssd to see pp who said natural dreadlocks would never be ‘professional’.

But lots of different hair types are expected to do basic grooming for the work place. If I turned up at my workplace with my 2 A/B layered hair washed and towel dried, I'd be told go home and come back when I was suitably groomed.

Granted, I work in a salon but considering my hair type appears unbrushed if left to its own devices, I'd guess a great many professional settings would want me to spend time taming it before arriving at work.

Discrimination against natural but cared for afro hair, is wrong. I am fully on board with that. I'm not sure that people should be allowed to wear braids, I suppose it depends how neat/long they are but I don't believe dreads are suitable for any professional setting.

@ frequncy.

1. My point was not that it is just towel dried, but rather that it is ‘the natural resting state’ of 4c hair. Dreadlocks take a lot of grooming.

1. Look on pg 17/18 I think for a long post detailing exactly how long it takes 4c hair to look ‘professional’ if not in braids. Look at the pics showing the level of transformation required. 9 hrs is not at all unusual. In between no sweating (no gym) & no water ( no swimming).

All so they look a way you consider professional. Is that fair?

Do you know that at one point, not wearing tight corset (which in some cases damaged organs, restricting breathing leading to ‘swooning damsels’) was considered immodest and indecent. ‘How dare they go out all jiggly, the hussies!’ Today we have moved past that.

I hope in the near future women with 3&4 type hair do not have to bend over backwards to be seen as ‘allowed’ in a workplace.

I understand how much care 4C hair requires, which is why I said I'm on the fence about the braiding issue. I can see that it is the most practical style for that hair type if you want to spend minimum time grooming. And yes, I understand that there is no 'minimum' time grooming for 4C hair.

But again, many hair types, in their resting state, including my own would be frowned upon in a professional setting. Banning natural afro hair in it's groomed, curled state as in the BBC link is undoubtedly wrong and discriminatory.

I still struggle to understand what any of this has to do with white women wearing braids?

But lots of different hair types are expected to do basic grooming for the work place. If I turned up at my workplace with my 2 A/B layered hair washed and towel dried, I'd be told go home and come back when I was suitably groomed.

But what people with Afro hair go through is not ”basic grooming”! I always thought I had it bad with my annoying 2b/2c hair. It has a tendency to turn into a bushy triangle if left to do its own thing. It takes me an hour plus to straighten with GHDs and even then it doesn’t tend to stay very straight. More recently I have been getting it straightened every 6-12 months (although it sounds like a much gentler process than Afro hair needs - no chemical burns etc). But when I read about what Afro hair requires and the amount of time/money it takes, it literally makes my problems look like nothing.

I definitely think dreads can be beautiful and professional. I am going to try and attach a picture of Zendaya’s dreads which IMO are absolutely red carpet appropriate. I once had an amazing professor with hip length greying braids and she looked spectacular. People should be allowed to do their thing.

Well how is braiding your hair because you like the style that you see on a black person, any different to eating a food that comes from India/China?

I could go to a curryhouse and eat an Indian meal cooked by an Indian person. I could even cook that food in my own home, having been to the Indian shop to buy the ingredients. Would that be wrong as well? It's not the same as assimilation. Assimilation is to do with actually mixing with the people on a social level, not letting someone cook your meal in a restaurant.

OP, continue to go about your day as you please.

Plait your hair, dread your hair, straighten your hair, curl your hair, shave your hair. Do what you want.

But do so without any grievance or malicious intention and you'll be absolutely fine.

But what people with Afro hair go through is not ”basic grooming”!

It is if they wear their hair in a natural state and not straightened or stretched. Yes, it is more work than straighter hair, but it does not take 9 hours. I understand why they straighten/stretch their hair and completely and utterly disagree with them being discriminated against for wearing their hair curly/kinky, if they spend time wet combing and conditioning it and making it tidy as per the BBC link. But dreads are not professional for any race.

Speedy a well thought out post. Thank you.

I just wanted to point out that what is in the picture are extensions. Natural dreads do not have a shine/gloss, which is one of the reasons people are down on them.

To the poster above. Even braids can take 9 hrs and ££ to get done. The difference is it is every six weeks rather than every weekend.

(although I don't think dreadlocks are ever going to be a 'professional' look on anyone, black or white).

Please understand that this isn’t ok and is incredibly offensive. I don’t care if people want to pile on me for being oversinsitveno whatever dismissive terminology springs to mind, you simply cannot make statements like this.
Are you honestly telling me you’ve never seen a professional person with dreadlocks? I would suggest you haven’t looked hard enough.

Your quite desperate to be offended arent you.
The last bastion...

Zendaya’s dreads

They look great - but are they her own hair? And is that style really any easier or cheaper to maintain than just braids? It must also be uncomfortable.

To clarify - I was talking about the sort of dreadlocks that takes years to grow, eg. the sort that rastas have, where bits of tree start to grow into them. Those ones may look cool but I don't see them being suitable for a reception type job in the near future. Probably fine if you are a gardener though.

I understand that 4c hair is difficult to do stuff with - but if there was no discrimination and you could do anything you wanted, what hairstyle would you pick that was easy?

But dreads are not professional for any race

And again. This is what PPs have been talking about with regards to black women being dismissed due to their hair. There is nothing unprofessional about my hair. It is groomed, it is maintained and funny enough it’s not stopped me from climbing the career ladder.

frequency

A previous poster gave a step by step breakdown of the hours it takes 4c hair to be groomed.

It is not mixed race hair you can condition and comb.

In all likelihood you have never seen 4C hair in its just out of the shower state. There are documentaries by the dozen lamenting the time and money poured into this. But you say it’s an exaggeration and they just don’t want to do ‘basic grooming’.

I’ll leave you to it.

You also missed quoting the part where you lied gilead, but nevermind....

@ carefree

I really want to educate you.

Dreadlocks don’t have ‘bits of tree’ in them.

A tramp might have a beard with bits of tree in it, does that mean a hipster beard is dirty too.

IT IS THE WAY THE HAIR GROWS
It tangles INTO dreadlocks. You can let it do it by itself like Bob Marley - maybe not for the office (google freeform locs) or you can get a hairdresser to make sure they are all the same size.

bits of tree
Do certain people smell of curry? And are others shifty?

Prettylovely - the whole point of the Lawrence inquiry was that it found widespread institutional racism. Now, one hopes the findings have helped improve things and one hopes that generally enough people challenge racism where they find it but when people talk about British being a racist society thats a what they mean. Not that every single white person is racist.

I just wanted to point out that what is in the picture are extensions. Natural dreads do not have a shine/gloss, which is one of the reasons people are down on them.

Sorry I hadn’t realised and thank you for correcting me. Do you think the woman in the photo on this article have natural dreads? They look great and the article is shocking:
www.google.co.uk/amp/amp.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2016/09/21/a_federal_court_ruled_that_employers_can_fire_people_just_for_having_dreadlocks.html

Where did I say they don't want to do basic grooming?

I actually said they should be able to wear their hair natural state if it is groomed. What the poster upthread detailed was not basic grooming, it was straightening/stretching the hair. I fully agree that she should not have to do that everyday in order to appear professional. It is discriminatory and needs challenging.

That doesn't mean that people with 4C hair should get to wash and towel dry their hair into dreadlocks, as a PP stated, and then kick up a stink when they're told they're not groomed while white people also have to spend more time than that to appear professional.

Personally, if I was in charge of the world, anyone would be able to do anything with their appearance and their professionality would be judged on how they behave/perform but alas, I am not in charge of the world and thus certain grooming standards need to be maintained in order to get by in the workplace. It's not right but it's not racist unless black people are being told they cannot wear their hair kinky/curly, in which case, yes, kick up a stink. I will do my best to support you in it.

It still does not change the fact that being told braids and dreads aren't permitted in the workplace is not racist unless white people are allowed to wear them.

And I still don't understand what any of this has to do with Kylie Jenner wearing dutch braids or me braiding my daughters hair to prevent breakage and tangles. I'm not appropriating anything, I am making my life and hers easier. I don't expect she'd get away with it in school but for holidays, it's best solution I've come up with to date.

grasspigeons you would hope so, but that wasnt how it was put especially after me calling it out multiple times.