I don't know how I feel about abortion anymore

[sirlee66]

I've always been very pro-choice. A woman's body. A woman's right to choose.

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant with my first and now I think my thoughts are changing.

I believe the cut off is 24 weeks? There was a lovely lady on here the other day whose waters broke and she gave birth to a baby girl at 25 weeks! If a baby can survive that early... It just seems...wrong!

Maybe the cut off could be lowered. I started feeling flutters at about 15 weeks so maybe before then.

I don't know what the answer is. I still feel really strongly that ultimately, the mother should decide but I just can't get past babies surviving outside the womb at the same age as a baby that could be aborted.

Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones. I also can't stop think about the poor women who have to make that decision. It must be so awful and I just want to give them a big hug.

I guess my question is, AIBU to not really know how I feel about it?

It’s ok to feel how you feel about abortion but quite simply if you don’t agree with abortion then don’t have one but as long as you aren’t projecting your feelings into others then there is no issue .

Expatinscotland I was referring primarily to this comment People with conditions are not... differences to be celebrated and welcomed however I maintain Iceland seems to disagree, but I meant the Government / medical fields rather than individuals.

It's heartbreaking what women such as KittyandTeal have gone through bit I'd hope that increasingly there its a more balanced view given on chances of survival, interventions etc. Not for every baby, but they're ate increasing numbers of babies surviving with Edwards based on the complexity of their presentation but also with the willingness of hospitals to offer medical support. If a baby comes out struggling to breathe and you do nothing there is more chance it will die that if you intervene. If you stand back and so nothing for most babies born with t18, t13 etc then survival rates well be lower that if you provided breathing support. Not all, and I understand as much as anyone who hasn't had to make that choice that sometimes what is best is not continuing with the pregnancy. But the comment about kids with medical needs not being worthy of celebration is utter rubbish

One of the big issues with not being pro choice is the alternative. You can't have equality of rights between the foetus and the mother. One has to trump the other. If you are not pro choice then you are saying that the foetus' rights trump those of the mother. You would force her to endure and unwanted pregnancy and birth, and then either give up for adoption or raise a child she doesn't want. It's an unpalatable scenario to most, even without contemplating the scenarios such as the poor woman in NI mentioned above, whose baby would die in any event.

There is an enormous difference between choosing to abort a healthy baby at 20 weeks, compared to a baby who would otherwise be born into an extremely challenging life. Having lived with a brother for 5 years who had major disabilities and absolutely no quality of life at all and experiencing only pain and discomfort, I would have no qualms at all aborting a severely affected child, just as, I hope, when I get old, I will also have the chance to end my life when it becomes intolerable due to age or incurable disease.

But, there is an enormous difference between this and choosing to end the life of a perfectly healthy 20 week old baby just because it doesn't fit in with your life plans at that current time.

YANBU the morality of abortion is very easy to comprehend. If you believe that that the foetus is just a lump of goo and not a human life you can do with it as you wish. If you however believe it's a human life then have an abortion it's the definition of evil, you have decided to end a human life based on your own convenience.

'however I maintain Iceland seems to disagree, but I meant the Government / medical fields rather than individuals. '

So the individuals didn't make the choice to terminate for DS then, they were forced by the government and medical professionals?

Well, Sleeping, then if you were ever to find out that your baby would be born with severe life-limiting disabilities, you will not terminate the pregnancy. But why would you criticise others who take the decision that this is a pregnancy that they don't want to continue with? Being a carer for a disabled child is an enormous task. Even if a couple makes the decision to go through with the pregnancy, nine times out of ten, it is the mother who will bear the majority of the burden. Some men are able to get up and walk away from their disabled children. The state does very little to help. In my opinion, a woman should never ever ever feel even the tiniest hint of pressure from anyone to bring up a disabled child (or indeed any child that she does not want). The women in Iceland and Denmark are making decisions based on what is best for them. It has nothing to do with you and if you are concerned about disabled children, I suggest you volunteer to foster or adopt some that are already alive rather than worrying about the ones that are not.

Actually I found the opposite, prekids I thought no one should abort, since having kids I realise what a long term and life change it is that needs carful planning and a network of parents/guardians that are committed to this little human and who else gets affected in the family unit for example older dc, and the mother herself needs to be considered.

When I was 16 yrs old, I was pregnant and I was 12 w 6 d when I had to terminate my pregnancy, didn't want to but had too. The doctors said the baby had an abnormality and wouldn't survive birth. Obviously I'm not going into much detail but I made that choice and regret it so much. Maybe something could have been done post birth who knows

something you will NEVER have to do though NewDad - so you are in a nice safe position to judge

The huge problem with suing women for things they may or may not have done in pregnancy - where do you stop? It ends in 'personhood' laws. Where women are imprisoned for having a miscarriage because they 'might' have done something. There are women in that situation in El Salvador, right here, right now. I will fight in the streets before allowing that to happen here in the UK.

and yes The Icelandic Government are not FORCING people to have terminations - people are choosing to!

NewDad how were your views on abortion impacted by your pregnancy?

But, there is an enormous difference between this and choosing to end the life of a perfectly healthy 20 week old baby just because it doesn't fit in with your life plans at that current time.

So instead you should be forced to carry the baby, give birth, and raise the child until 18? You do realise that 'fitting into life plans' is often things like living in poverty, living in an abusive relationship, having mental health problems, strongly feeling that you don't want to be a parent etc? You make it sound like a trivial decision whereas it's actually an eminently sensible and responsible one. We have more than enough children in the care system wanting homes. Why should we force people to have even more children against their will?

Here in Ireland we live with the results of an equal right to life.

We've had a woman die from sepsis while miscarrying.

A woman who was clinically dead, kept on life support while her body rotted because she was still pregnant.

A woman who died during surgery to remove an etopic pregnancy although surgery isn't best medical practice.

Tens of thousands of women having to travel to the UK to access safe abortions and countless others having unattended medical abortions because they can't afford to travel or can't get childcare for when they do.

We have a migrant rape victim, who's immigration status prevented from traveling to the UK forced to have a c section at 24 weeks because she was trying to kill herself.

The alternative to safe, early and rare are much worse.

But underneath I see your point but the plain fact is you either support a woman’s choice for her body or you support forcing s woman to carry a baby and force her to birth?

There’s no middle ground.

Your moral stance is yours and not necessarily another woman’s.

NewDad what a fucking ridiculous post. I suggest you are actually far more evil in your vile mysogynistic views on relegating women to incubators.

You views disgust me

NewDad I think the only lump of goo in this discussion is what is inside your head. Maybe don't wade in on an abortion discussion when it is something that you will never ever experience.

silently

It’s a bloody disgrace isn’t it

SusanBunch I don't judge them and I've stated that previously. I judge the pressure placed on them by the state.

I can't imagine making that decision or being given that option - my son's condition was discovered post birth and post intervention. They had already resussed and operated, saved his life a handful of times before we got the genetic results.

But I do know the pressure and bias put across by medics in the UK and to achieve such a high rate of abortion in Iceland I find it hard to believe that there is lots of support given, lots of positive stories, lots of reassurance of ongoing support as the child grows up.

Given how pushy medics in the UK can be, and yet so many people continue with their pregnancy, how do you think Iceland has such a high rate of termination? And do you really think it isn't indicative of their attitudes to people with significant disabilities?

Some people will terminate, and I agree it is their choice - their body, their child. But we make decisions based on information and if that information is deliberately skewed, it will affect the decisions made.

A question for the people who are just posting '24 weeks is too late' - are you just not reading the many, many comments that make the point that abortions at that point are always because the fetus will either have zero quality of life, or will die before or immediately after a full term birth? Do you think that women should have to carry those fetuses to term, or until they have to go through labour and give birth to a dead baby? If so, please do be clear about that.

I alsi think parents whose children have severe medical conditions should have tje right to withhold treatment and sign a DNR but I disagree with hospitals unilaterally making that decision or pressuring parents into it based in a label or diagnosis

What did newdad put? Can't find it

There not, I'm very fortunate enough that I'm I will never be in that position, but can you tell me how in any way it is acceptable if you believe something to be a perfectly healthy living being, to end its life ?

Oh look a forced birther male.....
Easy to hold such an opinion when its not your life, body and wellbeing at risk isnt it @newdad

You know many MANY women who have late term abortions desperately want their baby but factors outside of their control leave them which no choice than to abort. You are being unreasonable.