to think there must be some kind of border in Ireland / Northern Ireland because of people

[kalapattar]

All the talk has been about goods and services.

But how will people travel between the UK and Ireland without a physical border? Passport checks, immigration status etc. There won't be a border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland so how will this work?

the formation of the assembly in Stormont has something to do with the whole border issue, which it doesn't, it's a UK issue, not an NI one
Its a ROI/NI/UK/EU issue not just the UK.

You do realise that the GFA is also nothing to do with the Assembly, don't you? You do realise that if the direct rule was reinstated it would impact on the Belfast Agreement.

And that it's not possible for one country (the UK) to sign up to an international agreement, and then just renege on it I am not suggesting reneging on anything I am saying now might be the time to move on from the Belfast agreement to something better.

Are you suggesting using technology on all 275 border crossings? I am suggesting exactly what I said, that reports from EU countries are hinting at a combination of a FTA & technology being the likely outcome.

Also, as an aside, who are the EU elite? Start with the EU presidents and work your way down the Brussels gravy train.

In the hopes of getting some answers:

(1) Just to clarify, you understand that the NI Assembly has no say in this issue?

(2) What exactly do you mean by "the Belfast Agreement"

(3) By "moving on" from the GFA do you mean scrapping it? By "something better" - have you any suggestions - preferably ones that are legal, and acceptable to all interested parties (the UK, NI and Ireland)

(4) Do you have figures (not hints) as to how technology would work on 275 crossings?

It's hard to discuss things with someone who doesn't appear to understand them, or if they do, doesn't appear to be able to explain their pov.

And (5) - can you show me where any of the EU "elite" are pushing for a hard border?

I thought it was the UK who didn't want to be in the EU any more, thus forcing the issue of borders. The EU seemed happy for the UK to stay in the EU (though I expect they'll be glad to see the back of them at this stage).

I agree OP.
Don't know why people can't see the issue.

There is no need for a border now as we are all EU.

Post Brexit, how are we going to control immigration and movement of people from the EU into UK (main reason for brexit no?) if there is no border between Ireland and NI?

It seems to me politicians are closing their ears and eyes and crossing their fingers. There doesn't seem to be a solution.

The DUP Will not agree to there being a sea border between NI and Britain.

The Irish peace process will be in peril if there is an Irish land border.

Brexit is pointless if UK can't control it's borders and immigration.

Don't know why people can't see the issue.
The only people who can't see the issue are the ones who don't want to see the issue.

They close their eyes, put their fingers in their ears, and pretend it doesn't exist.

But it won't go away, and sooner or later it will have to be faced.

"Having said that, if common sense prevails then the UK will allow free travel of EU citizens to the UK after Brexit which would resolve (or at least fudge) the issue"

What about non EU citizens who have entered EU. They are also then free to enter uk.

Just like now

", as an aside, who are the EU elite?"

Nigel Farage of course.

Or as we call him on MN, Julie.

What about non EU citizens who have entered EU. They are also then free to enter uk.

No, currently only nationals of EU member states can enter the UK freely. That's why you have to show a passport at the airport or ferry terminal! You can't rock get a plane from Charles De Gaulle to Gatwick and then present your Mongolian passport or whatever and expect to be let in unless you have the required visa.

Sorry, don't know where the random "rock" came from

I did read about someone whose kitchen is in ROI and living room NI or vice versa.

Exactly Minnie - that is border control and would have to exist somewhere for people travelling from Ireland.

You can't rock get a plane from Charles De Gaulle to Gatwick and then present your Mongolian passport or whatever and expect to be let in unless you have the required visa

But it seems at the moment you can get into Dublin and then get to Northern Ireland and then onto the mainland without any kind of formal ID check at a proper border.

"currently only nationals of EU member states can enter the UK freely."

mmmm... almost anyone can enter UK as a tourist. It's when they try to claim benefits, health care, or get a job, that their status is questioned. The language we use is wrong about the true immigration check point.

Problem1: I started wondering today if (post Brexit) someone came from Romania with 6 kids to ROI. Then cross the (presumably no checks) border into Norn. Then take any transport to rUK. Then beg on streets of London when money runs out. Kids never go to school or get medical care. What's to stop this from happening post-Brexit?

Problem2: EU decides chlorinated chicken is fine after all. Lots of it imported to EU which includes ROI. UK tries to block imports of any amount to Norn. How is that going to work??

Basically - how do we control and regulate who enters the UK? How do we know who is entering and leaving the UK? It doesn't sound like we know now .

That was a massive issue at the referendum. All the talk about counting people in and out, knowing their status, visas and all that.

Well they got the international student stats completely wrong for starters

"Belfast Agreement" = "Good Friday Agreement"

Old School Tories prefer the later name, I'll leave it to you to wonder why.

I guess... There is monitoring & recording upon entry & exit, at MOST ports. Sounds like there has long been no monitoring betw. ROI & NI, but then crossing from NI to rUK by any commercial & most private transport means showing ID documents, so another timepoint when folk would be tracked (but not stopped). After that, without visa or right to abode, they can stay until they get caught & deported.

(1) Agree, as its not in session. If it was it would have influence even if it technically didn't have control.

(2) By Belfast agreement I mean the Belfast agreement, how can you not know what that is?

(3) I have no conclusions about what would replace the Belfast agreement, its just something I have been thinking is becoming redundant and needs updating/changed or replaced. And yes I know that would not be easy but we have the prospect of direct rule coming down the line which will not go down well with the Catholic community in N.I.

(4) No figures but its not just technology, its in combination with a FTA so not all crossings would necessarily need to be monitored. Is your objection just figures or is it more fundamental?

It's hard to discuss things with someone who doesn't appear to understand them Well lets just agree to disagree, I think you are wanting answers to questions that can't be answered in detail (certainly by me) until after they have been negotiated/agreed, and you are using that as an excuse to stop the UK leaving the EU. A problem can appear insurmountable until it is surmounted.

(5) Who is it demanding a hard border then if not the EU because I hear lots of talk about their being a hard border yet every one deny's that they will implement one. I can only conclude that the EU elite are using it as a 'threat' to force the UK to stay in the EU. And gives me a very good reason why we should get out.

toomuchtooold

I don't know what you mean by the UK having a 'similar bilateral
agreement' with Ireland because the point is that Germany and Switzerland haven't got any bilateral agreements of that type. Switzerland has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU as a whole, and in return they have to accept freedom of movement and a whole chunk of EU law.

Similarly the UK couldn't have a bilateral agreement with Ireland, it would have to have an agreement with the entire EU, and really that's where we came in I think.

@Julie8008 I don't really know where to start with your posts but firstly please don't confuse Catholic with Nationalist / Republican. Two very different things. (Ditto Protestant and Unionist.)

I have no conclusions about what would replace the Belfast agreement, its just something I have been thinking is becoming redundant and needs updating/changed or replaced.

Oh okay then. An international peace treaty that ended a civil war and let both parts of the NI community live free from discrimination should be dismantled because some random on the internet has been thinking*

*You call it thinking, I call it goady fuckery.

Somerville If you think the Belfast agreement ended republican terrorism then you obviously dont live in N.Ireland. The terrorism still exists under the surface, the fear, threats and the organised crime still carry on.

The reason people are worried about a hard border is because the terrorists are still there with there weapons ready to recommence the mass killings if their agenda stalls.

The only thing the Belfast agreement solved was a retirement plan for the IRA leaders.

Julie do you live in NI?

Are you Arlene Foster?