to think there must be some kind of border in Ireland / Northern Ireland because of people

[kalapattar]

All the talk has been about goods and services.

But how will people travel between the UK and Ireland without a physical border? Passport checks, immigration status etc. There won't be a border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland so how will this work?

I'm almost reluctant to tag her as I feel it will be giving him air but honestly @Julie8008 if you genuinely believe what you're saying I'm seriously worried. The GFA is the closest we have ever come to avoiding civil war. To pretend it's something that needs "fixed" is beyond ludicrous. EU see this British see this, Irish see this..

frecklemcspeckles I agree the Belfast agreement was massive progress but it was never a permanent solution. The past year has shown that the way N.I. governance is set up just doesn't work, it is a logical conclusion if you want N.I. to be successful that something has to change. Whats the point in sticking your head in the sand?

How ironic would it be if Sinn Fein were to rock up to the House of Commons, hold their noses, take the oath, and vote with opposition MPs and disaffected Tories to bring down the government the DUP...

If they did it, they would be truly representing the majority Remain vote in Northern Ireland, and also the even bigger majority vote in favour of the GFA. Who could argue with 'the will of the people'?

And Julie, don't pretend you even knew of the existence of the GFA before the implications of Brexit began to become apparent.

The past year has shown that the way governance of the UK is set up just doesn't work, it is a logical conclusion if you want N.I. to be successful that something has to change.

Discuss with reference to a grossly incompetent PM, buffoons in the Cabinet whose presence is dictated by the old adage 'keep your friends close but your enemies closer' and with no thought whatsoever to the welfare of the so-called country, with the whole sorry wreck held together thanks to outright bribery of a small fascist party of terrorist sympathisers whose electoral support comes from one corner of a province few people realised was still part of the UK...

Bonus marks for reference to plans to pack the House of Lords in order to push legislation through.

Why is Julie calling it the Belfast Agreement, does anyone know? It's really odd to insist on using terms that aren't generally used in discussios; it makes it all very confusing.

If I have it right, Julie thinks that there shouldn't be any border at all but there shouldn't be free movement of people and goods from Ireland to NI; she wants to get rid of the GFA but has no suggestions about what should be put in its place; she has no idea about costs of an electronic border, or of free immigration and no idea about the importance of international agreements. She is also paranoid about the elite in the EU having some sort of hidden agenda to try to force the UK to stay in the EU.

It seems a little unlikely that anyone could seriously think all that, so I think it's safe to presume she's either Theresa May or a goady fucker. I'm not sure which is more worrying.

Why is Julie calling it the Belfast Agreement, does anyone know

It's a Unionist thing. Kate Hooey et al always calls it thus.

The terrorism still exists under the surface, the fear, threats and the organised crime still carry on.

Yep. I've seen the huge bonfires with photos and effigies of Republican politicians on them. I've been offered drugs by Unionist thugs who fund their gun-running thus. And I've been threatened and spat at for speaking Irish with my children.

Oh hang on, you meant the other lot?

Its called the Belfast agreement where I come from, as it was signed in Belfast, which is the normal way agreements are named. I guess your not very versed in NI history, Maryz.

Julie thinks that there shouldn't be any border at all but there shouldn't be free movement of people and goods from Ireland to NI
Oh dear, stop making stuff up. There is already a border, its 2 separate countries, with different currencies and taxes etc why should that change? I am not against either free movement of people or goods between them.

Are people on MN so against different opinions that they just make stuff up?

The border is currently just a line on a map Julie.
It wasn't always this way.

Are people on MN so against different opinions that they just make stuff up?

Yes, that does appear to be what's happening here but not in the way you meant it I suspect

It's 'you're', Julie.
Sorry, couldn't resist.

I've travelled from Germany to Switzerland and back again a few times recently. The Swiss check passports (but the Germans don't). There's a customs lane at the airport that was mostly rather tumbleweedy but there were quite a few border-official-looking people around. I doubt that kind of border is feasible in this case.

I'm watching from the safety of abroad (in the process of getting my German citizenship) and in increasing horror at what has been put at stake here. I'm seriously considering handing in my UK passport in protest when I get my German one.

I wonder if NI could become something like the Isle of Man, it isn't in the EU but is in the common travel area.

Maybe NI could do the opposite, stay in the EU but still be part of the UK.

I also think there may need to be more cooperation between UK and Ireland (yes I know it is the UK that need to cooperate) and I k Irish immigration can refuse entry if they thin someone is heading to the UK.

Maybe something like UK immigration operating in Irish ports like they do in Calais at the moment.

Or some form of UK and Ireland visa, I think Chinese people can get something like that.

NI stay in the EU but still be part of the UK. Then there would have to be a border between NI & the UK, which would be unacceptable to the DUP.

Because the consequences of staying in the customs union mean we are defacto staying in the EU but with no representation. It was made very clear in the vote that meant leaving the EU not staying in.

In what way was it "made very clear"?

During the referendum, it was not clear. Even AFTER the referendum in November 2016 Johnson said that Britain was "probably leaving the customs union" - and the government denied this, saying it still had to be debated.

As for the single market, the Leave campaign stated again and again that we could have a deal similar to Norway - which would mean we would have access to the Single Market - so are you saying that Leave voters weren't influenced by the Leave campaign?

The border is being discussed on the Today Programme right now.

NI stay in the EU but still be part of the UK. Then there would have to be a border between NI & the UK, which would be unacceptable to the DUP.

There isn't a boarder with the Isle of man from either the UK or Ireland, IOM is currently not in the EU.

Isle of Man is proud of it's separate history & heritage from UK. DUP only wants closer ties to rUK.

Not wishing to derail but also wondering why the unionists call the GFA the Belfast agreement. I lived through this time in NI but never heard this term at the time....

Maybe something like UK immigration operating in Irish ports like they do in Calais at the moment.

I think due to the history of UK oppression, this would be a very unpopular move. Certainly many of the Irish public won't accept the country being used as a UK border post.

How would we feel if we had to have French security operating on all our borders? Probably not too happy.

Sometimes I think we forget we no longer "own" Ireland

Isle of Man is proud of it's separate history & heritage from UK. DUP only wants closer ties to rUK.
Eh? The DUP can't have closer ties with the rUK. Northern Ireland is already an integral part of the UK, as much as Wales or Kent.

sashh, the sea acts as a physical border with the IoM - just as it will between the UK and the EU apart from at the Irish border (and Gibraltar, let's not forget Gibraltar). The idea of NI staying as part of the customs union etc, with goods checks at the Irish sea was proposed before, but roundly vetoed by Arlene Foster (much to TM's surprise, it seems, but then everything seems to be a surprise to TM).

Why would Ireland allow UK immigration anywhere near it? One of the main reasons for being in the EU is to simplify entry and exit of people and goods. Should we all queue up in Dublin airport so that UK immigration can ensure we aren't going to travel north?

Changerazelea I'm from a unionist background, I've never heard of anyone I know calling it the Belfast agreement, even the ones who are very hard line unionist. I assumed it was an English thing.

but also wondering why the unionists call the GFA the Belfast agreement. I lived through this time in NI but never heard this term at the time....

It's not a Unionist thing, it's a Loyalist thing.