to think there must be some kind of border in Ireland / Northern Ireland because of people

[kalapattar]

All the talk has been about goods and services.

But how will people travel between the UK and Ireland without a physical border? Passport checks, immigration status etc. There won't be a border between mainland UK and Northern Ireland so how will this work?

Sinn Fein may call it "the north of Ireland" - at least that's geographically correct compared to DUP's use of the word "Ulster".

It's not geographically correct at all. The most northerly part of Ireland is in the Republic, not NI.

The whole thing is a fucking mess.

Couldn't agree more, and the clock is ticking.

True, Tuckers - I was just (rather badly) demonstrating that both sides are a bit disingenuous with the language they use.

It is the north of Ireland, just not the most northerly part.

I can understand why Sinn Fein uses that language given their political aims, so it's considered, if geographically inaccurate.

However, I don't think the DUP lay a claim to Monaghan/Cavan/Donegal (or do they? ) so that seems more like just careless language.

Julie, you do realise the troubles weren’t one sided? There was violence and terrorism on all sides, including the government’s.

The majority of Scotland did not vote for Brexit. And the majority of Scotland did not vote to leave the U.K. we’re being dragged out of it over 2%.

It is a mess, a dire mess. NI aside, we’re currently up shit creek with no map.

There are some non EU countries that are in the main Customs Union (Switzerland and Norway and Leichtenstein)

No, it's more complicated than that. Liechtenstein and Norway are in the EEA (single market with the EU) and Switzerland has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU that are similar to EEA membership but (I think) more limited in terms of access to the EU market in services, particularly financial services. None of them are in the customs union.

Environmental sense = one really specialist factory that runs 24/7 probably has a lower carbon footprint than lots of smaller less efficient ones

Probably eh?. And all this ignores the carbon emissions of transporting it back and forth. It doesn't seem very green to me - and I don't believe anyone really considers the true environmental impact.

frank, green or not is by the by. Without free movement of goods these businesses (within UK) will suffer. It will also have a huge amount of effect on what is available in our supermarkets.

TheyBuiltThePyramids Fair enough - I did say I was going off topic.

Even TM has said there will be a hard border.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-theresa-may-northern-ireland-customs-union-a8234766.html?utm_campaign=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook

Even TM has said there will be a hard border.
Which shows how weak her understanding of the GFA is

OP I wondered the same re the free movement of people.
People who ant to get to the UK illegally could travel from Ireland up to the North and get a ferry to Scotland. Apparently there are no checks on ferry passengers.
I regularly drive from Dublin to Belfast as I have family up there.

From Hansard - interesting how different people give different names to the same agreement. I've never heard it called the Belfast agreement anywhere until PMQs

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-02-28/debates/1F0CE924-51C5-4698-B16B-0CD495082B12/Engagements

Ian Blackford

Of course, the emphasis was on “equal”. We are faced with a power grab by Westminster, and it is no surprise that the Scottish and Welsh Governments are putting forward continuity Bills to stop it. The Foreign Secretary’s leaked letter on the Irish border shows that he cannot get to grips with one of the most fundamental issues of Brexit. The Foreign Secretary compared crossing the Irish border to going between Camden and Westminster. Frankly, you could not make this stuff up, Mr Speaker. The UK Government are prepared to put in jeopardy the Good Friday agreement. Does the Prime Minister agree with her bumbling Foreign Secretary, who is making the United Kingdom a laughing stock?

The Prime Minister

First, this Government are absolutely committed to the Belfast agreement. Indeed, we made sure that that commitment was included in the joint report that we agreed with the European Union last December, so that commitment to the Belfast agreement stands. We are committed to the Belfast agreement and to the institutions under that agreemen

Their is no reason why we can not honour the Belfast agreement and still leave the EU, respecting democratic choices. Their is also no way we could have negotiated and agreed how it would work until we made the decision to leave.

To those who say I dont respect other peoples views, well I disagree. I want peace and I want everyone to be happy. To do that the UK had to answer a question about the EU, we have and now we have to do everything we can to keep trade and travel between ROI and NI as easy as possible as we leave the EU, we can do that. I accept I dont have respect for remainers who are trying to stop it happening that doesn't mean I dont understand why they are doing it.

As for the plan, well it seems to me its going exactly as planned. I dont see how it would have been possible to know the outcome of a negotiation before the negotiation had taken place. The plan was to negotiate a good FTA and we are doing that.

Julie, apart from all the other nonsense in your post, do us all a favour and start calling it by it's proper name.

Its

Their is no reason why we can not honour the Belfast agreement and still leave the EU, respecting democratic choices.

Julie that still leaves the Good Friday Agreement/Belfast Agreement, an international treaty to which the UK is a signatory in place. We are required to meet the terms of that agreement. It is within possibility that that we could seek to renegotiate the terms of that agreement but we have not given notice to the other parties.

If we proceed with any action that creates a border - even if it is swarming with electronic gadgetary - we are in breach of the Good Friday Agreement/Belfast Agreement. It is a matter of legal fact. No matter the political 'means' of trying to replicate frictionless trade, a border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland is a breach of the GFA/BA.

So how does the UK being in breach, even if the practicalities of 'frictionless' trade are mostly sorted, of an international agreement look to any of those other countries we wish to make trade agreements with - reliable and uphold international agreements or not?

MaceWindu You might call my views nonsense, however I do have a similar view to many if not a majority of people in N.Ireland. So in fact your comments are very offensive to a lot of people.

If you want me to leave the thread I will (as I did last night), I am just trying to balance/inform people of a different point of view, I am not trying to troll anyone. If you dont want to hear it, just say.

OP, your initial question was about the border in the island of Ireland, 'because people'. I think it's been answered comprehensively at this point. Do you understand the nuances a bit more now?

Another "because people" itssue is yet to get much of an airing in Britain, but is potentially just as incendiary. Under the GFA, people born in NI are 'British, Irish or both', and both governments have agreed not to discriminate against us based on our nationality and to uphold the rights of that nationality. All those who are Irish-in-NI have therefore got EU rights which under the GFA we shouldn't lose. There are loads of examples of these, but my baby is waking up so I'll just give one for now - voting in the EU parliamentary elections. To enable us still to vote, there is talk of Ireland being given some extra MEP's who will represent all-Ireland, and those in NI voting for these in postal ballots. The DUP have already gone on record that they will never agree to this. But under the GFA we have to have these rights upheld. This is another reason why so many people are against it - it does affect 'British' sovereignty - and yet we democratically chose it (by a massive majority) and the will of the people is what counts, eh?!

JWIM I take your point, cant really respond as I am not a lawyer (as I imagine most posters on this thread are not). I can only take the opinion of some of those involved in Brexit that it is possible. If at some stage in the future it turns out that it is in fact impossible I will change my opinion. And thank you for a sensible post.

It makes no difference how many people agree with your views Julie. For the record, I have family in NI and ex's family are from slap bang in the middle of the border, I am not completely ignorant re views there. But the fact remains it is utter nonsense to suggest GFA and Brexit are compatible UNLESS we remain in the single market. Which the Tories have made quite clear is not their intention.

As for the plan, well it seems to me its going exactly as planned

What plan? There doesn't seem to be much evidence of a plan. A lot of slogans and talk of a bright future. That's all.

You might call my views nonsense, however I do have a similar view to many if not a majority of people in N.Ireland. So in fact your comments are very offensive to a lot of people.

Utter rubbish. The vast majority of the people of NI support the GFA and do not want it undermined. They also know that Catholic does not equal Republican and Republican does not equal terrorist. Unlike you.

I don't know if you've ever even visited NI. You certainly are not from there - your syntax is all wrong.