To shop my friend into the council?

[Nesssie]

First time poster...
Not sure whether I would be doing it out of spite or not.

A 'friend' has bought a field, built a huge barn and hidden a mobile home inside it. She lives there with her partner, occasionally his child, and 5 dogs, 3 cats.

They think that if they live there for a certain period of time (10years I think) then the council have to let them build and live there. Its illegal and they don't pay council tax etc.

She has quit her job, sold her house and moved into the middle of nowhere. I think she is depressed and isolated and her only way of getting attention is to buy more and more puppies.

Despite having all the land, the dogs are kept in a tiny room and I feel really bad for them. I have tried talking to her about it but it has just led to arguments and I have chosen to end the friendship.

I also worry what would happen if they have an emergency, the mobile home is completely hidden so no one would know if there was a fire etc.

AIBU to tell the council they are living there illegally? They will eventually be found out anyway so I think is it better it happens now, rather than a couple of years down the line when they have used all their money and have no options? I really don't know how else to help her.

I know that she will assume it was me that told, but the friendship is over anyway.

Shop her. Puppy farms are the worst. Breeding dogs alone, over 5 dogs anyway requires, a licence and specific planning. Why the hell should every other honest person have to apply for planning permission and jump through all the hoops when one person can just flout the law of the land. If you don't grass her up somebody else will. She's heading for a crash with or without your help.

A few people have questioned whether they are breaking the law. They are definitely living there illegally, there are rules in place to protect the countryside and also to prevent people living in below standard accommodation.
Not only is access to a sewer an issue but also where are they disposing of all their rubbish as I doubly they have council bins.
You have the right to shop them in to the council, they are not paying their share of the council tex which goes towards road repairs, fire service etc
It may not do any good but if the council do start hassling them they may think twice and at least start planning in case they have to move. I agree it would be worse if this happened down the line when they were more confident of being able to stay there.

Well I never knew that. The people I know who do it don’t move on. They’re basically just hippies that live in a bus and caravan in a field. I assume they have the permission of whoever owns the field and they have change of use as they’ve been there quite a long time. I also know a Family that spent a few years with 2 young children living in a caravan on a farm with no ill effects. Never thought about fire risk though. I don’t think I’d ‘tell’ on my friend if I was the OP, but can you encourage her to at least get a smoke alarm/carbon monoxide detector?

The only time they got out was when I was there and let them.

How do you know what happens when you're not there?

And it's not exactly a cave in the wilderness, it's a caravan, plenty of people live in them.

I'd mind my own business if I were you.

Unfortunately if the dogs are fed the RSPCA will do nothing, I reported a dog that was tied to a small chain all day and never walked but they said it wasn't neglect as his owners were feeding him.

There will always be people who chose to live on the fringes of society. There are a lot near where we live. It wouldn’t be my choice but surely not everyone can live conventionally in a house. It’s probaly not worth worrying about unless you are truly concerned for someone’s welfare beyond ‘they chose to live very differently from me’.

We live in a nasty society where you need permission to breath. I wouldn't report her, I'd try to help. You could start by helping her to find homes for the animals.

Why do people all think this woman living illegally is okay? Planning laws are there for a reason.

I would report - this will come to a head sooner or later. It’s better for her that it’s sooner before she’s entrenched.

They are definitely living there illegally, there are rules in place to protect the countryside and also to prevent people living in below standard accommodation.

At least she has accommodation. Hundreds of thousands of people have much worst living accommodation or no housing at all in this country. I certainly would not try to take this away from someone.

RSPCA yes, council no. I doubt the rspca would do anything do with the council. May I ask why you fell out? Was it over the dogs?

Feel so bad for those dogs.

I would. Laws are for all, not just those that do the right thing.

Lol at telling yourself you'd be doing it because you're worried about their safety.

If she was living like this while building a lovely big house for Grand Designs nobody would bat an eyelid. I've seen them do it a few times. One family even lived in a tent with all their kids and belongings while they spent a couple of years building.

Yes report. You'd never forgive yourself if something happened and you'd kept quiet

"I’d report her because of the dog's welfare"

Not the child's then?

Astounded by the proportion of comments that totally ignore a child living in those conditions!

Nesssie

I still really care for her but can’t support her decision.

She isn't asking you to!

As for the fire risk. Everywhere has a fire risk.

Why is living in a mobile home in the countryside seen as a worse place to live than (for example) a tiny bedsit on a dodgy estate in London? I know where I'd rather live.

Technically, they are not living there illegally until someone complains about them being there. Only if there is controversy, e.g. neighbour complains, does that status change. If they remain there peacefully without controversy for 10 years, they are entitled to build a dwelling on their land.

They may be composting their human waste and disposing of other waste responsibly, or using a septic tank, which would all be more socially and environmentally considerate than using mains sewage anyway. However, if the waste disposal situation is dangerous for neighbours etc, then there is a problem, then you or their neighbours or other individuals may feel obliged to act, and that would be arguably right.

They would not be able to use fire services, police services, waste services, etc, until their status on their land changes, at which point they can pay for those services in the form of council tax. In the mean time, they have to take responsibility for themselves, their property and assets, and the sentient beings that are under their care who don't have moral agency; the children and animals.

If there is evidence that they are causing harm to any other individuals or animals, you may feel obliged to act, and that would be arguably right. You or their neighbours or other individuals can then decide what the right course of action is. Reporting to the council or RSPCA is one option. Negotiation is another.

Many of the comments above are simply interested in implementing their preferences and beliefs onto these individuals, using the power of the state. It's just veiled under the guise of "lawfulness" or "concern". These individuals have the right to conduct themselves according their heart-felt inclination, so long as they don't infringe on anyone else's rights. Their neighbours also have rights and can exercise them as they see fit. They are subject to the same laws that everyone else is (the merits of the individual laws and statutes is a seperate topic) and if they are proved or caught committing statutory offences or crimes, they will face the consequences, and that would be fair (but not necessarily right).

I would absolutely not report if it weren’t for the dogs/pups. Because of them I absolutely would.

Sold up, moved to hide in the middle of nowhere.

Hmm.

What's her partner like? Could he be abusive / controlling?

Sorry trying to catch up with the messages!

They didnt need planning permission for the barn as it’s agricultural land.
The issue isn’t whether it is illegal, it definitely is and they know it. They doesn’t bother me as much as the other stuff.

We fell out because I kept questioning her about the dogs, and she has recently put a deposit on another puppy (think mountain dog size!)

I actually appreciate all the comments I’m getting as it’s confirming to me that this isn’t a straight yes/no.

I think I might wait until she asks me to meet up for a coffee, accept, and then tell her that I can’t support her lifestyle, express my concerns about the dogs and say I will be distancing myself from now on.
The dogs aren’t mistreated, maybe just neglected? Guess I’ll have to wait and see if I can live with that knowledge?

As yes, @PussGirl, I think he is quite controlling (but not abusive) - ever since they got together he pushed for her to quit her job, and it has all been his idea. Because it is all his money he is in control.

I too am bemused by the number of people who think planning permission is optional or irrelevant. Mull that over when your neighbour decides to build a three storey extension 6 feet from your kitchen window, while converting the groundfloor into a nightclub.

She won’t give up the animals, she doesn’t see any problem with that number of dogs.

Maybe in my chat to her I will mention a smoke alarm, at least that will be off my conscience. Although it won’t be any use if they are trapped as no neighbours would hear it.

I don’t care that she is ‘living differently’ - ironically I supported her moving and building her own house! But I didn’t realise the way they would do it, where she would be keeping the dogs, and she only had 2 dogs at that point.