AIBU to think Child Maintenance is fair?

[R2G]

Just that. Does anyone have any opposite views? Anyone feel they ask to much? Etc

Of all the men I have ever met, and there are many, who claim that they desperately want to see their child but their ex wife won't let them, I only believe one of them. And I believe him fully.

I have also known women to claim that they don't get a penny from their ex, in order to sully his name, but in my personal experience it's much more rare than the former scenario.

And yes, I know that anecdote is not data.

Genuine question. Why is it that men have no choice but to pay as it's their responsibility. Yet women have the choice to have the child adopted an abstain all responsibility. Why is that ok?

Oh, and as a point of clarification - a baby can only be placed for adoption if both the parents (as named on the birth certificate) agree. If the father contests it (and he can do this even if not named on the birth certificate, but would have to do so in court) then he is completely entitled to apply for full custody. The woman could then choose to never see the baby again, but she couldn't opt out of child maintenance. So you're wrong here - if another parent wants a child, then you can't opt out of your financial responsibility for them whether you're male or female.

To: NotASingle**ToGive

Adoption is a different scenario. The adopted people I know came from very young single mothers who would be totally unable to raise a child as still children themselves. In some cases father remains unknown.

To: PhilODox

I think SoonToBeamers was referring to "average families" when she said it does not cost £1000 per month to raise a child.

After a child arrives, the mother is often the only one who goes part-time/flexi-time/changes her job. If a Dad works Monday to Friday 7-7 then realistically he only has the weekend to have the kids and weekends need to be split by two since the Mum will want weekend time with the kids too. I think that in future men will have to shield themselves by working reduced hours/flexi-time when they become fathers so that if the relationship with the mother breaks down, they aren't reduced to EOW.
My ex has the kids 24 hours a fortnight. I am very lucky that I'm not in that situation.

Disclaimer: I think CMO is shit, and as unreliable and inconsistent as many of its clients are.

But at risk of being accused of sounding goady, at what point does any of this mess become the woman's responsibility too?

Either it's clever, resourceful conmen who are duping oblivious women into a false sense of security and then abandoning their previously exemplary record to leave their XP/XW high and dry, or, women are actively having children with men they know are unreliable and irresponsible, but ignore their nagging doubts about him and go ahead with having his babies. It's either/or, really.
For the latter, I blame the women as equally as the flighty men they choose to reproduce with.

MargaretCavendish thank you for answering, I stand corrected re adoption.

Im sorry notasinglefucktogive, Are you saying you blame me for my ex leaving my children and refusing to pay child support?? Ive heard it all now..

Except the Mother does not have to tell the father of the child she is putting the child up for adoption so unless he knows about it he cannot apply (SS do not check and it is NOT a legal requirment for the mother of the child to tell the father)

"Women don't have this choice" do they not?

My cousin was brought up entirely by her wonderful dad. Her mother was and is still useless and never contributed. She has a fantastic job travels the world etc my cousin never saw a penny of that.

Worridmum- not true- if the father is named on birth certificate, his permission must be obtained for adoption.

Prettylovely please reread my post, I said that it is either of two scenarios. Either children are abandoned by a previously good and dependable father who has had a total change of personality, or, an irresponsible man stays true to form.
So if any woman chooses to have a baby with a man that they already know isn't reliable, it would be daft to be surprised when you still can't depend on him after choosing to have his baby!

phil you don't have to name the father unless you're married though

I'd love to know how that "financial abortion" would work in practice.

Would there be a form you would fill in, get notarised maybe and lodge with the courts?

Presumably then, you have no right to see the child again. But what if the father changes his mind later? Does he then get served with a bill for missed child maintenance and is he asked to clear it before he gets to see his child? Or is it an irrevocable decision - no way back even if father matures/can't have any other children/meets a woman who is horrified at his actions etc

Does the mother say to her child "no dear, you don't have a father, he financially aborted you before you were born. it is only fair that he could do that because I could have actually aborted you and it is very important in this life that men have every right women do, even if they don't have the same responsibilities. It is my fault this happened because I should have had an abortion - a medical procedure that only affects my body - when he wanted me to"

Do parents tell their sons "oh be sure to sign the financial abortion form if that little hussy won't have an abortion when you asked her"

you don't have to name the father unless you're married though

True, but this is a practical necessity - like the fact that women can have abortions and men can't, it's a function of biology, not necessity. You can't require all women to name a father because some women genuinely don't know who the father is. It's never the case that the mother is unknown.

Oh and is there a time limit like real abortions? will the father have to make his decision before 26 weeks or can he have a bit of a go at being a dad and flake off 2 or 3 weeks after birth (financial infaticide maybe?). Will he need to see 2 psychiatrists to make sure he knows what he is doing and is "entitled" to this abortion?

I got £400 a month for 15 years so can’t grumble. It was voluntary but around the CSA rate. He also had our DS for 2/3 nights a week. He is a good man and never missed a payment. He even carried on paying 6 months longer than he had to to let me get used to it.

Ok I see notasinglefucktogive, fwiw my ex did actually have another child previous who he did see and pay for, He still continued seeing her after we split but didnt see my two who he had previously been a good Dad to or pay. He in recent years has stopped seeing her too. I dont think you ever really know how awful some people can be until you split with them.

Of course it is not fair but it is making the best of a bad situation when two people have a child and for whatever reason do not co-inhabit.

It is about time people realise that the Service is an outside assistive service for when things break down. They are not to blame for the breakdown in the first place nor are they responsible for dead beat parents.

Every time you have sex there is a risk of pregnancy unless you’re sterile. If you’re not able to understand that then you shouldn’t have sex.

A baby had to be paid for whether you want to or not. It is despicable that people will argue that a live child doesn’t deserve money that they have and can afford because they've decided they don’t like the other parent.

Personally I wouldn’t go near a man with previous dc who didn’t contribute properly to their upbringing or was bitter about it. It should not be socially acceptable to leave your dc struggling.

Idont I presume that is directed at me? No it isn't a ridiculous comparison to make.

No, it was directed at everyone that is going "but biological reality is so unfaiiiiiiiiiiiiir".

It's biological reality. Men can't abort. Men know this. Men need to take responsibility for their own reproduction, just like women have been expected to do for fnarking ever.

"Leave your dc struggling" but surely that is partly the mothers responsibility too?

'You' as in the royal you, not you personally. Just to make sure as I don't want to cause offence.

I wasn't very surprised to hear that my XH left OW high and dry with no maintenance and didn't bother with their baby after its birth, as he'd met someone else. She was totally aware that he left us (for her), didn't try to see our v.young DS again, fiddled his accounts to say he only earned a pittance so he could avoid paying any CM. Armed with that knowledge, she still chose to have his baby . 40 is far too old to naively think, "he wouldn't do that to us, cos' we're in love".
It's not their child's fault, but I admit that I laughed my head off at her blind fucking idiocy. When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time!

This whole "financial abortion" makes no sense.

Women can have an abortion, because women are the ones who are pregnant. Men can't have an abortion because they don't get pregnant, therefore they need to think ahead and not get someone pregnant in the first place, if they don't want a child. This is not unfair. It's just biology.

It's up to men to take responsibility for their own fertility if they don't want to be responsible for a child.