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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Child Maintenance is fair?

342 replies

R2G · 26/02/2018 23:09

Just that. Does anyone have any opposite views? Anyone feel they ask to much? Etc

OP posts:
incorruptibledream · 27/02/2018 05:09

Contraception is the responsibility of both partners. Not just the man.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/02/2018 05:10

Has your ex got hold of your username/log in details? On this thread you started, you said he was paying minimum contributions, hardly ever saw your kids and was deducting money for travel. Doesn’t sound very fair to me. Why the change of heart? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a2837105-To-not-meet-halfway#66463033

littlemissrain · 27/02/2018 05:13

@MsJuniper

We don't say that about women any more - most people accept that you should put reasonable precautions in place by using contraception, but we acknowledge that it's not 100% effective, so the right to abortion is needed.

Men should have the same right - it is a huge double standard and I'm surprised that so many mumsnetters cannot see that.

HuskyMcClusky · 27/02/2018 05:14

If women can choose not to become a parent post-conception, men should also be able to choose that.

No. A woman can choose that because her body hosts the embryo/foetus, and she has an autonomy over her own body. A man does not have the same rights over her body.

It’s a simple concept with which a ‘feminist’ should be familiar.

ColourfulOrangex · 27/02/2018 05:15

CMS as a service are useless, I'm owed over £2000 (£6.32 a week Hmm) there is a deduction from earnings in place yet he continues to change job or his details which pushes the deduction from earnings start date back 2 months, I think they should be able to do more

Tamatave2000 · 27/02/2018 05:17

CMS administer the Family Law when calculating CM (child maintenance). They do not make the Law. CM is based on a % of Paying Parents Income with adjustments made for shared care and another other Children the Paying Parent has parental responsibility.

Maybe government needs to look at how CB (Child Benefit) and CTC (Child Tax Credits) are administered? Under the present system Single Parents are entitled to CB and CTC regardless of how much CM they receive. Seems a bit unfair that a single parent who has high earning ex who can afford to pay a high CM + SM (Spousal Maintenance) receives the same CB and CTC as single parent who receives the average £30/week?

littlemissrain · 27/02/2018 05:17

No. A woman can choose that because her body hosts the embryo/foetus, and she has an autonomy over her own body. A man does not have the same rights over her body

Of course, bodily autonomy is a key reason why the right to abortion is necessary, but so is the fact that some women aren't ready - be it mentally, emotionally or financially - to bring a child into the world.

If women can choose not to become a parent, then men should also have that right. It's quite simple.

OldBlueStitches · 27/02/2018 05:18

Little I do see your point, but if he doesn't want a baby then he needs to take responsibility and wear a condom. It's the only way he can be sure.

Then you have the choice issue because if the condom breaks he can't force her to take MAP.

To be honest, men don't like confond in general and prefer to rely on the women going through the pill and it's side effects - even if that's just the panic of forgetting one day, etc.

However, there are cases where the couple have relied on her taking the pill after a mutual decision to stop using condoms and she stops without telling him (this happened to a good friend of mine). In this scenario - which obviously is impossible to prove - I think he should have a choice. It's a complete violation of trust and impacts his life forever. In my friend's case he adjusted and is a great father (their relationship is on the rocks), but she entirely removed his choice about having a child - when and who with.

OldBlueStitches · 27/02/2018 05:20

*confond = condoms!!

littlemissrain · 27/02/2018 05:22

@OldBlueStitches

As you acknowledge, condoms break! Even with contraception, you cannot guarantee that conception will be avoided.

Women have the back-up of MAP/abortion, should they decide to. Men should also get an opt-out.

Why are people arguing that one gender has to accept the risk of parenthood from sex while the other doesn't?

Tamatave2000 · 27/02/2018 05:24

To ColourfulOrangex

Amazing what some fathers will do to avoid maintenance. Surely he can afford £6.32/week. Even someone claiming Job Seekers Allowance would pay £7/week!

Mine is same. Has vanished overseas after CMS assessed £7/week.

Make sure you claim your full entitlement to CB, CTC, WTC (if working) and Child Care if applicable

sleepyhead25 · 27/02/2018 05:24

He could wear a condom and pull out.

cocopopo · 27/02/2018 05:24

Olicity17

He pays 1/4 of his wages, we have a mortgage and bills to pay too which isn't taken into consideration by CSA...

cocopopo · 27/02/2018 05:26

Sleepyhead25

Yes I agree kids don't reduce in cost the more you have, however paying £500pm for one child is excessive as we do not spend that on our child. It's funding his ex's social life.

HuskyMcClusky · 27/02/2018 05:30

If women can choose not to become a parent, then men should also have that right. It's quite simple.

No, it’s really not that simple.

Women have the right to either keep or abort a baby, due to bodily autonomy.

It logically follows that if they exercise that autonomy and choose to carry the baby to term, once that baby is born it needs to be materially provided for.

If it is made legal for its father to abrogate all financial responsibility by signing a piece of paper, the innocent child suffers. And, ultimately, society also pays.

Fortunately, people with better logic than you have considered this extensively. Nobody went ‘the menz aren’t equal so let’s make them paaaaaaayyyy’.

HuskyMcClusky · 27/02/2018 05:31

You are making this about women’s vs men’s rights. It’s really not. It’s about the rights of a child to be provided for by both parents.

Olicity17 · 27/02/2018 05:33

He pays 1/4 of his wages, we have a mortgage and bills to pay too which isn't taken into consideration by CSA...

So your child gets more. 3/4 of your dps wage goes to your family. 1/4 goes to the child he already has.

His first child isnt getting more.

Tamatave2000 · 27/02/2018 05:34

To All Posters

Even if a child was not planned there is duty on Parents to take care and provide till they are 18

MsJuniper · 27/02/2018 05:35

@littlemissrain yes it is simple - for the reason laid out by @HuskyMcClusky.

Men as a class are already taught by society to take as little responsibility for procreation and contraception as possible and to have as many partners as possible. Your proposed "right" would encourage the more feckless to give up any pretence whatsoever.

wewentoutonsunday · 27/02/2018 05:37

It would also lead to further vilification of single mothers. Drain on society and so on.

littlemissrain · 27/02/2018 05:38

@HuskyMcClusky

You are quite simply wrong. When the debate about legalising abortion was raging in the 1960s and 1970s, it wasn't solely about bodily autonomy. It was also about allowing women to decide if and when they became parents.

HuskyMcClusky · 27/02/2018 05:39

I am not wrong at all, and I did not say it was ‘solely about bodily autonomy’.

Mummyoflittledragon · 27/02/2018 05:40

cocopops
Are you saying that your partners first child doesn’t need a roof over their heads? That’s what it sounds like. I think it’s wrong that he won’t be reassessed when his salary has dropped.

littlemissrain · 27/02/2018 05:41

@MsJuniper

Men as a class are already taught by society to take as little responsibility for procreation and contraception as possible and to have as many partners as possible

The present laws create the opposite scenario, as women have an absolute safeguard against pregnancy and parenthood, while men do not.

Tamatave2000 · 27/02/2018 05:44

To Cocopopo

CM is based on what Paying Parent earns and not what ex wife spends on child. Have you used the CMS calculator to check that £500pm is too high based on his earnings? To pay £500pm for one child taking into account you have child too he must earn at least £1,100 per week