To want to move back to the uk

[Huldas]

Have been in New Zealand many years, husband is a kiwi and kids were born here. My DDs are 7 and 10 now and I don't think the education system here compares to the uk. Standards for educational achievement are just not as high. Plus I want DDs to have a sense of their UK heritage. And I am very homesick. Dh has lived in the UK before, we could both get good jobs in the UK assuming we can get dh a visa (not easy when in 40s)
But- logistically is giant hassle to move back, I have no family in the UK at the moment, and right now it is just me who wants this. DH and DDs are quite happy here.
Would it be unreasonable to pursue this? Do my concerns re education/heritage have any actual grounds?
Any advice appreciated (including areas to move to- am originally from Devon, want to avoid London if poss.)

But they aren’t English and don’t have any English heritage. It is you who are missing it. DH is British born but moved as a child to NZ. He grew up being told he is English. Now we have moved here it has completely cemented in his mind he is a kiwi. You are projecting yourself into your children. At 7 and 10 they are NZ pakehas with an English mother. Same as many many other pakehas in NZ with British parents and grandparents. They aren’t English and you are trying to uproot them from an environment they are very happy in.

Damn. There were paragraphs in that.

^I spent a lot of time in nz and can entirely see why people live there.

Haha. NZ is the place I don’t want to return to unless it’s WW3 here. We got the DC NZ citizenship now with Brexit and all the Russian meddling just in case. I don’t want it to come to that, but it is probably one of the safest place if there is a war.

I would suggest you have a long family holiday here and have a good look at whats here for you.

From my experience children are happy to try new places and new things but you do need to share your thoughts with your family.

Sit your family down, do some proper research about areas, what do you want in your life and where can you experience it in the uk etc

Most of the crap you read about 'how terrible the uk is now' is utter rubbish. Newspapers print all sorts of crap that everyone just seems to believe without it actually having any effect on them personally, yet they're happy to trot it out as fact to anyone who will listen.

Have a proper look at jobs and areas you might want to live. I would recommend areas with several schools rather than just 1 school to choose from (rightmove has a 'schools in the area' type thing when you view a property) or be prepared to travel to school. I do an 8 mile school run to access a slightly massively better school for my dc .

I would guess if you own a home in NZ that you will have a reasonable amount of money for a UK house given how expensive it is in NZ so you will probably have more choice than many first time buyers in the UK.

If you can avoid the SE and London as those prices are stupid prices for houses and rent. Unless of course this is where you want to be.

I think you should give it a go. I would hate to be living in another country purely on the basis that its keeping someone else happy.

Why does it always seem to be that Mums have to put up with being miserable and unhappy and none of those 'happy people' ever want to consider living anywhere else in case it makes them sad..........just like Mum is ?

I've been abroad for 12 years now, and will be moving back to UK next year. I am looking forward to it immensely. I am back in the UK quite often for uni pick ups and drop offs and to see my Mum, and although some things are different, nothing discourages me from moving home.

It's very hard to compare the NZ and UK education systems. They have slightly different aims.

My kids are going through the NZ system; I went through the UK system in the 80s. When I compare my experience of the UK along with my siblings' kids with my experience of the NZ system, I would say:

• Teachers have far more freedom to choose what to teach and how to teach it in NZ.

• There is less factual content in NZ schools, and less ramming of stuff into the kids' heads. On the other hand, children here don't get subject-specific teachers until they're nearly 13 (unlike 10 or 11 in the UK) and what they're taught, particularly in the humanities, is wishy washy (science and tech seems better)

• NZ teachers are more approachable, both by parents and pupils and less ground down.

• teaching of foreign languages is rudimentary in NZ. "French" would be better described as "French studies" iyswim.

• discipline is better (although arguably worsening; I understand it's improving in the UK)

• children aren't encouraged to read good literature (I suspect the teachers haven't read much either)

• education is more vocational / technical than academic (which reflects NZ culture well)

• basic early years literacy is taught better in NZ

• gender stereotypes are much less important in NZ

• maths was traditionally very well taught in NZ, but reforms some years back have done real damage: high school maths teachers are complaining about the standards of new high school entrants.

NZ is a country that couldn't give a shit about Shakespeare, Plato or who shot that bloke in 1914, but cares very much about functionality and technical creativity, and its education system reflects that.

If you want your kids to have a well-rounded knowledge of art, literature, history, philosophy and so on, don't put them to school in NZ.

On the other hand, the highest earning immigrant group in the UK are New Zealanders, comfortably out-earning the locals. The same in reverse is not true.

I note that you say, 'assuming DH can get a visa'.
Is that one thing you could attempt to find out? If the answer is No, then that would kill it off.

Also, from my experience I don't think most NZers are any more racist than most people in UK.

Oh god yes. British people keep it secret.

Yes, come over for an extended trip if you can. Spend some time in the area that you imagine yourselves moving back to, meet up with old friends, get a feel for the area, its schools, parks and amenities. And if you visit in summer try and imagine what it will be like when the trees are bare and it's dark at 4pm.

I would also urge you to get over to France, Italy, Spain or wherever you fancy. You'll have all those countries on your doorstep if you move back to the UK and have opportunities to travel that you can only dream of now. For us, Europe was a big factor. Paris for a weekend? A few days in Rome? Lisbon for your birthday? Summers on the Cote d'Azur? All possible if you live here (and can afford it), although with cheap flights and Airbnb you can do all the above, apart from maybe the last one, for a few hundred pounds.

You say you have no family her at the moment. Does that mean that you expect to have family here in the UK in the future? What about your DH's family in NZ - are you close to them? Do they live near you? We don't live near my family here in the UK - they're all over 2 hours away - and tbh we saw more of them when we lived in the US because they'd come and stay for a week or more. But think about those family ties. Also think about friends. If you haven't been back in 10 years your friends will all have their own lives and may have moved to different areas. We lived in London before we moved to the US, when we got back most of our friends had scattered, so chances are you will need to carve out a new social life this takes time. It needn't influence your decision one way or the other, but just bear it in mind.

The quality of education is the one big reason why we are contemplating to move OUT of the UK. And we have a so-called outstanding state school. Which truth be told has amazing teachers but is so severely underfunded over the past 8 years or so that it is ripping at the seams. I feel breaking point has been reached, and all the goodwill of the staff is not going to fix that.

I think all 4 of us would have to really want it for a move to be feasible.

And yes, I agree - so if you really want it you'll have to sell it to them. With that in mind I recommend you don't come over in our winter, if possible!

I feel for you OP. Why wouldn't you want to return to the UK? I feel so grateful to be here in this world class city with all the opportunities it presents. NZ is undeniably beautiful but salaries and career opportunities are limited. A friend moved to NZ recently and is struggling to find work. I imagine she will find it extremely difficult to replicate the inflated salary and status that she had here. Best of luck with whatever you do.

Speaking to an Australian teacher, he says the reason lots of Oz qualified teachers come to the UK for a couple of years is because they get more points and are seen as superior to their colleagues once they’ve taught in the UK. That’s just one guy, he could be talking crap, but I know I could have emigrated easily and got a job out there.

I am a Brit living in the US, I love it here. I have just come back Home after visiting the U.K. for the first time in 4 years.

It reaffirmed all the reasons we moved to the USA, overcrowding, expensive, and everything just seemed grey and depressing.

OP doesn't want to live in a world class city - she said not London.

Disclosure of interest: I grew up in NZ. Then I fled.

In the same way that "love" isn't enough when your partner is an abusive turd wozzle, "beaches and weather" isn't enough when you are subsisting paycheck to paycheck and/or too intellectual and/or too foreign etc etc etc. I found NZ to be more racist and sexist than the UK and equally as imbued with class feeling, albeit differently expressed. The NZ government has an incredibly well oiled PR machine with which it advertises NZ as a great place to migrate. This is necessary as many of NZ's young achievers leave and don't return.

I love NZ. It breaks my heart and makes me absolutely furious to see NZ in such a state and to witness the utter wasting of an amazing country. Nevertheless, there is no point in denial and delusion. NZ's social and economic decline began in the early 70's and has continued unabated ever since.

This is now the NZ reality. Highest youth suicide rate in the OECD.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-40284130

OP, YADNBU to want to move your children to the UK. You are being realistic. I wish you all the best.

Pmsl at the UK weather whiners. You do know that nz is in the path of the roaring forties? They are closer to the equator than the UK ( the antipode is Spain) and are sensibly on double summer time for their latitude. We could have that only Rees mogg , a man who never goes outside, talked it out.

South island weather is similar to UK but more extreme. North island is warmer and more humid.

But the city based dickishness about bad UK weather is just dumb. Take your weekends outside Cornwall, the Pennines and similar obviously wet places and learn something.

This is necessary as many of NZ's young achievers leave and don't return.

This is the reason DH and I are here. And why many of our classmates from universities are overseas, in Australia, Britain and the US. The NZ govt needs all the immigrants to replace all the well educated young kiwis who left for better opportunities. DH still dreams about returning, but have accepted it won’t happen. I don’t want to return at all. I would have considered Oz but it’s very hostile to kiwis now.

However I really like Jacinda Arden!

I couldn’t live in NZ, OP - 15/years on, a close relative still misses London

specialsubject what’s wrong NZ weather? It is much better than the UK. Lovely summers with lots of sunshine. Amazing beaches. I came from Auckland and find Dunedin really cold and miserable. Agree with you that’s more like England. There is no snow or ice scraping in Auckland. Only thing that is wrong are the freezing houses.

V humid this summer in Auckland

everything just seemed grey and depressing

Well yeah, it is the middle of winter ...

Gosh after reading this I wonder why anyone stays in the UK.

Think it depends on your income, where you live in NZ and where you want to live in the UK.

Personally I think if you earn decent money it hasn't changed that much in the UK since 2008 when you were last here, and you can still lead a good life. It's not like NZ is a cheap place to live, when I was there I thought you got less for your money housing wise than the UK.

I haven't lived in NZ but know lots of kiwis and have travelled in NZ for a couple of months.

The pros of NZ I think are its beauty, the outdoorsy active life, the weathef... and better quality of meat!

But it feels quite "narrow" in my opinion in terms of opportunities, diversity, culture, buzz. It's no surprise that so many kiwis come to the UK in their 20s to experience London, further their careers etc. There's just more opportunity. Despite the Brexit doom-mongering we're still the 5th or 6th largest economy in the world.

Would your kids be interested in going to uni here? Maybe the time to go would be when one is doing A level and the other is going to uni? I think going to a British uni may broaden their prospects and by the time they're older might be more excited by it but maybe only if near London or another cool city.

The pros of NZ I think are its beauty, the outdoorsy active life, the weathef... and better quality of meat!

You cant beat the English countryside. Its much more accessible than in NZ and the access to historic estates and buildings in the UK is obviously far better than NZ.

The outdoorsy lifestyle can be exactly the same in the uk. Honestly my dc go horse riding, kayaking, mountaineering, mountain biking, fell walking, coasteering, bouldering, abseiling, lake swimming, rowing and loads of other outdoors sports.

You can do exactly the same outdoorsy things in the UK as you can in NZ

Actually Welsh Lamb is a far better product than NZ lamb. I'm sorry but it is. And English butter is far better than NZ butter. Even English wine is bloody good beating NZ and Australian wines frequently.