To think personality disorder IS mental health? (sensitive topic)

[EddyF]

In this article of a mother killing her baby, it mentions that she has a personality disorder but not suffering mental illness. Wouldn't a PD mean mental illness?

I genuinely am interested in knowning more about PD as I'm worried about a relative who appears to have PD (from my limited knowledge on Google search). But I would have thought it would be considered as a MH issue.

Sorry it's from the DM

article-5412741/Mother-22-admits-poisoning-seven-week-old-baby-boy.html

ApacheEchidna there are treatment options for PDs

*windchimesabotage

I hate to see everyone with personality disorders tarred with the same brush because despite the disorder every individual is different and some people regardless of diagnosis have a great deal of insight and put a lot of work into trying to deal with their disorder.*

THANK YOU!!! I work SO hard to manage my PD day to day, to try and make sure I’m not allowing MY disordered way of thinking negatively effect the people I love and care about.

Get sick of seeing it thrown about on MN like an insult.

I have BPD/ASD and my understanding was that for many people there is a genetic predisposition that when combined with childhood trauma, can cause those genes to be expressed. Often, because it tends to run in families, the childhood trauma is likely because things aren't stable or one parent doesn't provide emotional validation.

I think all of these these dx are massively subjective and there's huge overlap. Once I'd started getting to grips with the BPD using DBT and other interventions and as I aged, it then became obvious that there was something underlying that hadn't been picked up before, which was then diagnosed as Asperger's last year - at 37. Who knows if the mess of things really is either one or the other, or both. Some days I can barely function and others I want to ditch all these labels and pretend it was all a bad dream. I try not to get hung up on the terminology and categorisation but of course I hyper focus on these things and even something as small as that can tip me into becoming unwell

Uhuhoney you clearly didn't read my post properly - there is no name calling, I didn't call you odd - I clearly stated your views are odd. Which they are. I have no interest btw in having any sort of debate with you.

@LagunaBubbles

Firstly, my views i can assure you are not odd. I am an academic working within a reputable university delivering research to government policy, and the like. They're challenging the status quo around mental health research which is long overdue.

Secondly, since you have no interest in debating an issue, i think it's narrow minded that you would call my views odd. You haven't explained why they're odd.

Genetic research has long been critiqued, have medical models of mental illness.

Maybe educate yourself rather than closing off discussion.

@Lagunabubbles writing off those views as odd is very dismissive. The whole point of science is that it isn't static, there's always new research and we are always challenging the current current beliefs. This is a valid point of view and whether you agree or not it is not a minority view. There's a large movement of psychologists who take this view of the PD diagnosis. I read a lot of stuff about BPD when I was diagnosed, and the views Uhuhhoney puts forward ring true for my personal experiences, particularly how people with BPD are often treated by health professionals. I don't necessarily agree fully with either side of the debate, I think the answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

The minute we start treating the status quo belief as gospel and stop research backed challenges to current healthcare, we are holding back science and progress

To me to state there is no genetic link to PD is odd. If believing in the influence of our DNA on our mental health is being dismissive then so be it. It's not the whole answer of course, however I never said it was.

And my comment about not being interested in a debate are because I would liken it to a debate on the internet with someone who has anti vaccination views. So pointless for me.

Comparing a challenge of an incredibly contentious mental health diagnosis to anti vaxxers is completely ridiculous. Why are people so insistent that people with a personality disorder diagnosis are fundamentally flawed human beings who will never change? The evidence now accepted by the NHS is that it's a treatable condition. Surely that's good news?

"Genetics loads the gun, environment pulls the trigger"

A lot of significant mental illness boils down to that imo.

Oh for goodness sake I'm not comparing any challenge, Im talking about my own keeness and motivation to engage with someone who doesn't believe there is a genetic link to mental disorder would be the same for ME as engaging with someone with anti vac views. And show me where I have said Hannah people with personality disorder are "deeply flawed who will never change"? I haven't because I dont believe that. Of course the NHS is accepting it's a treatable condition- I work for them and a large part of my job is treating people with a diagnosis of BPD - the therapy we do MBT in the NHS has helped many many people with BPD to change their lives actually.

Totally agree with you there *absentmindedwoman".

I was referring to the messages throughout this thread, not necessarily to you personally. Working with people with BPD means you'll know how much stigma we face. Unfortunately that often comes from people in the NHS who are meant to be treating us (i'm not saying that you do this, just that stigma amongst health professionals in general is common).

There's so much that we still don't know for sure even about simpler mental health issues like depression. Continuing mental health research and debate is not the same as anti vaxxers

Hannah I'm not saying it is - I'm using that to explain how pointless I feel it would be to debate with someone who doesn't believe in any genetic links that's all. And yes I totally agree with regarding what you say about stigma.

I see, thanks for clarifying. I'm glad there are people in the mental health sector who understand

Without giving too much away our clinic is one of the few in our area doing the treatment programme properly - which is a 12 week educational group designed to explain Mentalisation treatment and BPD and then individual and group treatment once a week each. Google Anthony Bateman and you will find out more about it if you're interested. It's not a cure but in my experience with patients if helps.

That’s very interesting Laguna. I hadn’t heard of MBT before but having read through the basic training slides some of them quote word for word the issues my friend has. Interesting suggestions as to pathways.
I’m assuming this isn’t a widespread programme as yet? She has been in and out of DBT for some time but isn’t really able to challenge any of her disordered thinking yet, so isn’t able to resurrect any relationships. It’s catch 22 and is killing her, but there doesn’t seem to be a way through.

I don't know very much about mentalisation therapy but I'm pleased there are places offering things other than DBT. I think DBT is really valuable but I think we're at risk of ending up with a one size fits all approach. Like we have with depression and CBT. I had schema therapy which I found really helpful for dealing with my past trauma, but I'd like some DBT or something to give me more practical skills. I'm trying my hardest to research the concepts and apply them to my life now

I have Borderline Personality Disorder, my older brother has Anti Social Personality Disorder and my younger brother has both!!! 😒
When I see the distress and problems in their lives and mine, I can assure you, it IS a mental health issue.
We all have normal lives, partners, kids etc.
But for me everyday is a struggle, dealing with the endless crap in my head.
This caused by a traumatic childhood.

mamaryllis I'm really not sure how widespread the availability of MBT is (I'm in Scotland) but I was under the impression it was fairly widespread in England, Anthony Bateman is based in London himself. I've been to London for the initial training. It's a form of psychodynamic psychotherapy so is offered by Psychotherapy depts here. I would love to know now, the training for supervisors is important to because supervision is a huge part of good clinical practice.

I have a personality disorder and it IS a mental health illness, yes. Mine was a changed diagnosis from bipolar and I definitely suffer mental illness with it.

It is one of the more taboo or less accepted mapental health illness. When I told people I was bipolar they sympathised and told me I must be strong to cope etc, etc. Now, when I say I have a personality disorder lots of people go quiet, become guarded or just look at me like I might boil their bunny. In actual fact borderline/emotionally unstable personality disorder is often so similar to bipolar they are commonly misdiagnosed.

I have a personality disorder but I wouldn’t kill anyone. It is a mental impairment so far as I’m concerned as my thinking and actions in personal relationships is far from what is classed as normal.

Personality disorders are triggered by events life. If you minimise your contact with people and don’t have personal relationships you can live a normal life. Bipolar can only be controlled by drugs and has no triggers it’s a roller coaster of emotions that happen without any warning.

@KittyandTeal, I know how that feels as when i was just 'depressed' i felt more supported and accepted but since being given the diagnosis of EUPD/BPD im viewed as crazy and likely to harm someone even though i have never harmed anyone. I barely meet the criteria for EUPD as i dont self harm or have majorly disordered ways of thinking. I am more sensative to other peoples words/actions and i am more emotional ie im more likely to cry (sometimes through shame/embarressement) and harsher on myself than those without EUPD ie im fat, stupid, this is my fault etc.

ive just completed DBT(all 4 modules of it) via weekly group therapy sessions but its made me feel really sad that all though i can change how i think or react to certain situations it doesnt change how i am viewed by professionals or by the public because of the stupid label that is attached to me. I will still be viewed and treated as dangerous and crazy no matter how much therapy i go through