To think personality disorder IS mental health? (sensitive topic)

[EddyF]

In this article of a mother killing her baby, it mentions that she has a personality disorder but not suffering mental illness. Wouldn't a PD mean mental illness?

I genuinely am interested in knowning more about PD as I'm worried about a relative who appears to have PD (from my limited knowledge on Google search). But I would have thought it would be considered as a MH issue.

Sorry it's from the DM

article-5412741/Mother-22-admits-poisoning-seven-week-old-baby-boy.html

@uhuhhoney any ‘facts’ to back up your assertions. As you are involved in research, you’ve gotta have some scientific evidence. Think you are overly negative about recovery/cure, but perhaps it’s just a semantic issue.

I also disagree with you definition of PD being neurotic rather than psychotic. Obviously some are more psychotic - paranoid PD for instance. And BPD is by definition borderline between the two...

I have a mental illness AND a personality disorder. (At least what my court clinical psychartrist said) however for some people it is a mental illness.

I wouldn't look to The Daily Fail for accurate information about medical conditions. I read a story on there a while ago where they described a child with asd as having 'aspergers disease'.

My ex has personality disorder but it took a psychiatrist to diagnose it, not just 'doctors' as in the report

Also. That poor sweet baby. How could she!!!

Uhuhhoney thank you for that. You've just given me hope after this thread had me on the verge of tears. I have BPD which was caused by unstable attachments in childhood as well as trauma at a young age and sexual abuse when I was 4. I am not a bad person. There is a lot of ignorance on this thread. There is no evidence whatsoever that personality disorders are about who a person is rather than an illness they suffer from, and on the contrary it's now accepted in the medical community that BPD is a treatable condition. The diagnosis is relatively new, from the 1970's or so. It's still very misunderstood and there is a quite large movement in the medical community against the term. The last thing BPD sufferers need is people who don't have a clue posting their bile on the internet.

P.S there is no medical definition of a personality, therefore how can it be "disordered"

@ShrinkWrap

Yes.
Myth of the medical cure - joanna moncrieff

Doctoring the mind - Richard Bentall

Countless Meta analyses of RCTs showing no effect of medication/trauma effect sizes in childhood. Any journal - look into open access articles.

Recovery is only purported by discharge on medication in society. And here you need to consider subjective and objective recovery differences. Drugs often make people worse.... i wonder why?

Mental illnesses such as SZ include a relapse stage. Healing from trauma is a process, it cant be removed. Relapse is totally normal and therefore negates recovery as an absolute.

Countless studies show high levels of childhood trauma in PD patients: similar to anxiety and SZ.

I will write a more coherent post in morning.

ShrinkWrap that science is decades old. It is not on the borderline between psychosis and neurosis as originally thought. That's why it has been relabelled as emotionally unstable personality disorder

@HannahGlasgowGal

I'm sorry to hear that words that kept me going: "sometimes it snows as late as May, but summer always comes eventually". Keep hope.

We need to accept individuals reactions to trauma; your reactions don't make you odd. Labelling someone as disordered may help the labellers but they add a layer of shame and more pressure on an already traumatised individual.

@SaucyJack well you seem lovely

@SaucyJack emotional intensity disorder ?!

That doesnt exist - EUPD does though .

@hannah yes decades old and I wouldn’t call it science! I was just refering to the etymology, but EUPD criteria include both psychotic and neurotic features

It absolutely is and I wish it was called something different. I strongly believe people can be helped if there was enough money put into therapy .
The difference in treatment is massive dependent on health boards and funding so if you are unfortunate enough to suffer from this in an underfunded area then the treatment and often attitudes are much more negative as there is not the facilities to help.

SaucyJack isn't that just the name one of the teams in Somerset has given it?

@shrinkwrap ah sorry, it's easy to jump straight to laying into someone with emotive subjects like this! Apologies for jumping to conclusions.

I feel quite lucky to have a cpn and psychiatrist who, whilst accepting the need for a label on medical notes, told me as soon as I first got diagnosed that they treat the person, not the "disorder". Attitudes are slowly changing

"That doesnt exist - EUPD does though ."

Well it's the same thing, so it can't not exist.

Seems to be linked to STEPPS tho- so people in NHS areas that offer DBT instead may well have never heard it.

@EddyF at the end of the day one of the only reasons "labels" in mental health are useful is because they can empower both professionals and service users to go down the best treatment pathway for their needs.

I have fought for service users to receive a diagnosis of PD so they can for eg receive a certain type of therapy that is very likely to improve their quality of life.

On the flip side i have worked with service users who certainly do have personality disorder - but we have negotiated what goes on their discharge summary because they have not wanted that diagnosis or the treatment pathway that would go with it .

Diagnoses are never fixed either .

Some people find a sense of relief having mental health diagnoses- i meet many women who when given information about EUPD feel that many of the indicators resonate with them and then we can support them to link in with supportive agencies.

Diagnoses tend to just give a framework to work within and are a means of being able to also support people to obtain correct benefits etc .

PDs are lifelong conditions arent they? Mental health fluctuates

@PancakeInMaBelly - consultants will always review diagnoses given by a previous consultant ( or indeed by themselves).

@PancakeInMaBelly I can only speak for BPD, but that at least is completely treatable. Major depression and anxiety are also likely to affect someone throughout their life even after treatment. BPD also fluctuates, just like my anxiety and depression does.

Personality disorders are mental disorders, but they cannot be treated or cured, and are not considered to be mitigating factors in criminal cases, nor do they exempt a person from responsibility (cannot be used as an insanity defence, basically).

Oh harsh super, people with personality disorders I believe can be helped to recognise and change behaviour traits and often the reasons behind them. They are often victims of trauma and abuse and I think it’s disgusting that as adults it’s not given the attention it deserves.
People with traumatic pasts aren’t stupid, there are things that can help.

@SuperBeagle

Personality disorders can very much be treated and alleviated. Your view is very outdated.

@SuperBeagle and if the person with the Personality Disorder lacked capacity at the time of the offence then this absolutely would be a mitigating factor.

Well, I mean, several others have said the same thing on this thread, and it's widely accepted that several types of PDs cannot be treated nor cured (NPD, histrionic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder etc).

And none of those would amount to lacking capacity. It's incredibly difficult to prove insanity in a criminal case, and none of these personality disorders would cut the mustard.