To find it outrageous that school inspects the DC's trousers

[BlackTrousersAreBlackTrousers]

And makes them change immediately into school regulation trousers if they are not the right 'cut'.

Black trousers are black trousers surely. DS wanted the 'skinny' type which are not actually skinny but less flappable than the standard fit. All the rage, plenty of DC wearing them. Store sells them as school trousers. They are school trousers.

School decides they are 'jeans'.

AIBU to think they should take their head out if their arse and concentrate on educating the DC rather than making them line up for 'inspection', as if they are army recruits?

Lower school HAS to wear trousers only sold by school uniform shop. They even put a colourful line down the side, like they are an army brass band, so they cannot sneak on reasonably priced trousers - £18 as opposed to £6 supermarket ones.

It is obscene. Why are they allowed to get away with it?

Before some idiot pipes up that I should disrupt DS's education by moving him if I don't like 'dem rulz', schools are a public SERVICE not a vehicle for boosting the ego of some limp dicked, power crazed twat .

YANBU but then I would agree with you as im against school uniform in general not just strict standards. I think at the very most schools should have a general dress code ie 'please dont dress like you are on a night out on the town' and if they really must then a jumper with the school logo on. Dont see why anything else is needed tbh. People say its so all pupils look the same and arent judged but I think thats a stupid thing to claim as whatever uniform you choose there will be some who suit it and feel comfortable in and some who dont.
For instance with trousers. Some girls may feel less conspicuous in trousers and find them comfortable... but for me being pear shaped, at school I found trousers completely humiliating because they accentuated my shape massively... ended up looking more sexualised and attracting more attention than if I had been wearing a skirt.

I think kids should be allowed to wear what they are comfortable in within reason.

I think kids should be allowed to wear what they are comfortable in within reason.
Whose 'reason' will that be. The school's reason? The parent's reason? The kid's reason?

I think at the very most schools should have a general dress code ie 'please dont dress like you are on a night out on the town
And then someone who decides 'school shoes means trainers' would send their child in wearing a crop top and hot pants and then if anyone said 'well that's not schoolwear' would start with but it's ONLY a crop top!! You're just body shaming and sexualising girls. If you feel uncomfortable witj it then you are a pervert and should never work with kids.

You know, because the issue is with the attitude of 'rules don't apply to my child'.

I think at the very most schools should have a general dress code ie 'please dont dress like you are on a night out on the town'

lol, on what planet would that work.

julie8008 worked at two schools I actually attended. There was no uniform apart from 'smart/casual' and 'practical footwear' and brief detail of what that entailed (no heeled shoes above a certain height, no skirts above a certain length, no crop tops/bra tops, no spaghetti straps, no strapless tops or dresses) Someone did once get away with wearing a leather pencil skirt when I was there but she actually looked very smart so im not sure how much of a 'get away with it' it actually was. It also works in many schools around the world. The UK is quite intense about uniforms whereas many schools across Europe are not.

Just follow the school uniform policy and it won't be an issue surely? My skirt length was always checked at school and we had to have very specific blouses etc

There's proof that schools with strict uniform rules perform better than those with loose rules (not including schools with no uniform - different stats for those schools)

no heeled shoes above a certain height, no skirts above a certain length, no crop tops/bra tops, no spaghetti straps, no strapless tops or dresses

windchimesabotage You have just described uniform rules, so your ok with enforcing rules you just disagree what the uniform should be. What would you do with a parent who insisted on sending their child into school in a short skirt? Would you be bothered if teachers measured how long their skirts were? What about crop tops where the parent says you can only see the belly button when their DD raises their arms so it doesn't count? or getting into an argument about whether or not a top was see through, where the parent said it was only in strong light so it didn't count, And on and on...

It also works in many schools around the world. The UK is quite intense about uniforms whereas many schools across Europe are not.

Yep, it works at every school my kids have attended.

Both on planet Earth :-)

All on planet Earth :-)

Schools are pretty clear about what is, and what is not, acceptable. They tell you this at the induction ffs. It’s not that hard to follow the rules.

I think school uniform should be abolished. I think it gives young people the message that they can't be trusted to dress sensibly or appropriately.

My dd 15 goes to a small school(less than 150 pupils) with no uniform. There are a few practical guidelines and the head is the ultimate arbiter if someone pushes the boundaries, which happens very rarely.

Basically, they can wear anything including jeans, but can't wear crop tops or t shirts with offensive slogans. They can wear make up, nail varnish and hair can be dyed, shaved and worn in any style.

The school is rated outstanding and staff/student relations are fantastic.
The students are trusted to express their individual personalities, within reason.
Most of them just wear comfortable casual clothes.

The school has removed so many areas of conflict and the students respect this.
It also frees teachers up to teach, instead of policing ridiculously strict uniform policies.

Julie that list is clearly a lot more flexible than having to wear a certain pair of trousers of a certain cut. That level of control I feel is ridiculous. I dont think having 'any' rules at all is ridiculous, I think complete inflexibility is silly. How on earth does a slight difference in the cut of a pair of trousers have any bearing on someones ability to learn? Different about skirt lengths as potentially you could have your underwear on display which isnt very professional looking. So id agree with some sort of skirt length policy although even in that case I think it should be flexible as obviously people are different heights and shapes so a certain skirt length will not look the same on every girl. Id just expect the school to use reasonable judgement over it not wander round with a ruler checking it to the cm. Same with the cut of trousers. A general rule is one thing like 'plain long black trousers' but getting irate over the cut of them is just a massive waste of time.

And the raising arms belly button thing you stated well I think thats a case where reasonable judgement comes into it! Personally I would not consider that to be a crop top and so I would allow it. I just dont think that having reasonable flexibility over clothing items is going to lead to everyone dressing like complete maniacs and pushing every boundary that they can. Actually it seemed to be the opposite where I went to school because the boundaries about uniform werent restrictive enough to merit rebelling against. No one spent ages arguing over cuts of things or exact cm measurements of garments.
I had a friend who was a goth and used to wear veiled hats/headpiece things and all she got was 'please pin the veil up whilst inside so you can see properly' and no one else started wearing veiled hats because she was allowed, no one was really interested.

"I think at the very most schools should have a general dress code ie 'please dont dress like you are on a night out on the town"

They basically do this in American public schools (very few state-funded schools use uniforms).

EVERY summer, my FB feed (I know a lot of Americans because I am an expat) is full of stories and arguments about the madness that this causes. Kids turning up in silly clothes. Kids turning in sensible clothes but still getting dinged because the school has got so fed up with the silly clothes that they have started becoming overly draconian and have implemented zero-tolerance policies. Schools wasting time measuring straps on tops or arguing about whether these are leggings or trousers. FB shouting matches about slut shaming because a girl in microscopic shorts got told to go and change them... etc. etc.

Trust me, it is easier to have a bloody uniform.

"My dd 15 goes to a small school(less than 150 pupils) with no uniform. There are a few practical guidelines and the head is the ultimate arbiter if someone pushes the boundaries, which happens very rarely."

I can totally see no-uniform policies working just fine in small private schools where there is a particular common "culture" of hard work and mutual respect. I don't think this can be scaled up to the average state school, which has to educate all kinds of kids including some quite challenging ones who push the boundaries all the time.

I think uniforms should be as strict as possible.

I went to a school where the uniform had to be literally the dress, the cardigan/jumper, the blazer, etc, from the school shop. Shoes were black leather lace-ups. Anything in hair had to be white. Not beige or clear or neutral: white. No jewellery except plain stud earrings.

It was great. Nobody had to think about what to wear. Nobody looked cooler/richer/trendier than anyone else.

It eliminates a lot of distractions so that kids can get on with learning and teachers with teaching. It’s not that anyone thinks teenagers concentrate better in straight-legged pants. 🙄

Yep, love uniforms.

I think school uniform should be abolished. I think it gives young people the message that they can't be trusted to dress sensibly or appropriately Umm they cant be trusted because they are children.

windchimesabotage Sounds like you want a uniform policy that no one enforces, so effectively no uniform policy. Well it seems most people in the UK disagree and want an enforced uniform, for very good reasons, we dont want girls with crop tops, skinny jeans, etc at 11.

Why can't children be trusted?

EVERY summer, my FB feed (I know a lot of Americans because I am an expat) is full of stories and arguments about the madness that this causes. Kids turning up in silly clothes. Kids turning in sensible clothes but still getting dinged because the school has got so fed up with the silly clothes that they have started becoming overly draconian and have implemented zero-tolerance policies. Schools wasting time measuring straps on tops or arguing about whether these are leggings or trousers. FB shouting matches about slut shaming because a girl in microscopic shorts got told to go and change them... etc. etc.

Sounds very similar to the UK schools trying to enforce draconian uniform rules. It's a waste of time.

Our US schools have moved beyond this. It took a lot of discussion but they got there. They let kids wear what they want. The attitude now is that unless it's got an offensive logo on it, who cares? Unless it's actually stopping someone from learning, it's just not an issue.

Our US schools have moved beyond this. It took a lot of discussion but they got there. They let kids wear what they want. The attitude now is that unless it's got an offensive logo on it, who cares? Unless it's actually stopping someone from learning, it's just not an issue

Oh really? . So, why are Girls told they can't wear "strappy tops"/show bare arms/shoulders? Oh yes, it's because they cause all males within a 10 miles radius to think impure thoughts. Well god help them (males) if they saw an exposed ankle.

, while in school during hot weather (should've been added after shoulders) sorry about that.

Personally, I wouldn't show up to an office job dressed like I was on a beach or at a club. I think it's reasonable for kids to treat school the same way.

"Why can't children be trusted?"

Some kids can, but have you ever talked to a teacher who works in the average comprehensive school? Some kids deliberately enjoy provoking adults and behaving like a PITA.

Uniforms all the way, please (with, perhaps, a formal work suit option for 16-18yos).

Kokeshi123
Not just the kids though. Look at how many people on this thread (including thr OP) have come back to but why does it even matter if they wear trainers and not shoes. More often than not it also comes with the view let teachers actually teach which translates as back down any time our DC don't fancy following rules because it's the path of least resistance rather than send their child in with the expectations of not being an argumentative PITA.

I've taught in a high performing non uniform school. It worked because we didn't have the type of parents who would back their child breaking rules because 'it doesn't really matter so why are YOU disrupting the lesson'.

It's an attitude issue.

My kids have been to both uniform and non-uniform schools (although the uniform school was primary, and fine with supermarket stuff, as long as broadly speaking, the kids were grey at the bottom, and red at the top, they didn't create a fuss about the occasional non-standard item)

The only difference is that at the uniform schools we have a bit more work making sure the right clothes are clean ie. all the actual work is on the parents.

All the schools have been on a par discipline-wise, none have had any problem with inappropriate clothes (or if they have, I haven't seen it).

Obsessing over exactly the right trousers? Life is too short, and who cares if all the kids match.

Swivell
It depends on the school.
The non uniform school i worked in we had no issues because there was a dress code abd the parents weren't the sort of idiots who's send their child to school in a crop top because well it's only a little but cropped.

At my current school around 95% of our parents send their child in correct uniform. We could probably go non uniform abd it wouldn't make a massive difference other than the same 5% who can'r get their heads arouns the idea that trainers are not school shoes would be nit picking over any element of a dress code.

Other schools I've worked in non uniform would be a compelte and utter disaster because the parents routinely think rules are optional for their DC (one of these was a very middle class school with lots of golden children who could do no wrong apparnetly) so you'd get designer ballet flats, tiny jersey skirts, black skinny jeans for boys, black trainers. All because but why does it matter. Non uniform there would be horrid and a pissing competition to see who was wearing the best t shirt and who could flout uniform rules and still have mum on the phone blaming school.

“A parent deciding that their child doesn't need to follow the rules and buying the wrong stuff isn't supporting the school, is setting the child up to be in trouble and to decide further rules can be ignored and certainly isn't teaching them about critically assessing and how to voice dissatisfaction in a constructive way at all.”

This ^^ with bells on

“The only reason some schools move to parents being forced to buy the very expensive specific uniform items from one supplier, is because parents have refused to follow the rules previously, and have bought their dc jeans or trainers, rather than 'proper school trousers' or shoes. Thus ruining it for all the sensible parents.

I think it's probably to do with the school taking a percentage of the sales.”

I didn’t think schools were allowed to do that. DD’s school certainly isn’t, but the only items that have to be bought from school are the blazer, tie and PE kit. I’m inclined to agree that schools provide the uniform themselves to ensure that it is actually uniform as opposed to various different versions of black skirts/trousers.

“I can totally see no-uniform policies working just fine in small private schools where there is a particular common "culture" of hard work and mutual respect. I don't think this can be scaled up to the average state school, which has to educate all kinds of kids including some quite challenging ones who push the boundaries all the time.”

It certainly wouldn’t work at DD’s school. I agree that too much time is wasted on ensuring that school uniform rules are adhered to, but IMO there would as much time wasted trying to get the pupils to adhere to a dress code. Plus there might be the problem of designer hoodies etc going missing.