To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

Yes it's saying... This is barbaric this doesn't fit with an enlightened modern 21st society... This must stop.

bluelady if we insisted on seeing 'the bigger picture' and allowing religious sensibilities to take priority over common sense and personal autonomy we would still be living in the dark ages (like many parts of the fundamentalist Muslim world) where stoning is an acceptable punishment for adultery and homosexuals are hanged

No one should be allowed to cut off bits off their children's genitalia whether they are boys or girls. You should love and cherish your children not mutilate them. Peoples religious beliefs do not give them licence to mutilate their children. It is wrong and well done to Iceland to protect their children. The people who perform these operations should be prosecuted.

Given that millions of men all over the world are circumcirsed why are more men not calling for the practise to be outlawed? Given that it's so terrible and all you'd think they'd be matching on government?

I wouldn't/haven't circumcised my sons but among all the circumcised men I know this is a total non-issue.

"Not to mention the hygiene issues, which are pretty common"

Don't you have running water in your country? Access to baths and showers?

It's no coincidence that uncircumcised men in the UK don't have hygiene issues because they actually wash themselves - you know

The shocking sentence in the link was that most European countries ban FGM. Why isn't it all European countries?

I have a Jewish friend who chose not to circumcise her son, she tells me it is becoming more common. I have no idea.

My sister lived in a Muslim country where boys weren't circumcised as babies, think it was between 8 and 10 or maybe12. If they can wait that long I can't see why it would be a problem to wait till 18.

My husband was circumcised as a baby, he is from North America. My sons are all intact. We never considered it for a moment.

Why would I deliberately hurt my child, why would I risk a medical accident (they happen.) that could cause horrific problems for the rest of his life?

If we make this law we may not have 100% compliance for years but every journey starts with a single step so lets take that step.

@Blue lady. My family is Muslim. We haven't practiced circumcision for generation because we are nice and civilised

*geberations

Vitalogy

it's child abuse

A s a survivor of actual child abuse, I find that comment a little offensive. A tiny baby will not remember being circumcised. Child abuse survivors do not have that luxury.

There's no reason apart from the medical one. Religion has no place in any child's life, but this irrevocable painful procedure has to stop. At least the catholics only chuck water around.

In Judaism the babies are 8 days old. They are not going to remember it.

An 8 day old baby wouldn't remember any act of mutilation or abuse carried out on them. That doesn't make it acceptable in any way.

Religious views should be respected unless they involve causing physical harm to someone else. That is not worthy of respect.

How many men who were circumcised as babies grow up to be atheists or change religion? Why should they have to suffer having had their foreskins removed for a religion they don't even follow?

Exactly. which is why it should be fine for adults to make the choice for themselves, but not for their babies. Incidentally, babies do not have a religion.

I wouldn't/haven't circumcised my sons but among all the circumcised men I know this is a total non-issue. Has it occurred to you that the men you know might not want to discuss the state of their penis with you because basically it is none of your business. Doesn't mean they are happy with it.

Lonicera In some countries where they perform FGM they have to go miles to the nearest well to get water.

Bypass - why was that post anti Semitic or anti Islam? She doesn't say "all Jews and Muslims can fuck off". She says, those who feel as strongly about it as Bluelady is certain they will can fuck off. It was clearly a response to bluelady saying that she knows for a fact that lots of people will leave.

I'll say it again: there are many many intrinsic religious beliefs that aren't now practised. Do you agree with all of them?

FGM may have further reaching consequences, but it is still cutting off parts of a child's genitals without their understanding or consent. So it's being an ostrich to say it's not remotely comparable. What you are doing, is saying that YOU think it's a tiny operation, therefore it's fine. But why do you get to draw the line for someone else's body? Why not support waiting until they are old enough to ask to have it done?

Bluelady & what is religion if it is not a choice?
I could choose to believe there are blue fairies at the bottom of my garden that are divine spirits. The only difference between my beliefs and these religions is, well, one of them was built on the mass murders of Christians and Jews, but aside from that, my beliefs would be no different to these religions. I could believe that these fairies want me to sacrifice dogs to them as a way of showing my commitment to them. But the law wouldn’t and shouldn’t allow this. There needs to be boundaries for religious freedom.

I have no wish to live in a country where people's deeply and sincerely held religious views are ridden over roughshod by people they don't affect.

How do you feel about the rights of children being ridden over roughshod?

May? Whether you believe in male cirumcision or not, comparing its consequences to fgm is actually really offensive.

Need to ban ear piercing on children as well while we're at it.

What a nasty discussion.

I also disagree with infant circumcision. But the remarks such as "off they fuck then" with regards to Jews and Muslims are in extremely poor taste given the history of Europe. Ther former were progressively expelled from western Europe, forced into eastern Europe and finally into Russia where they suffered from pogroms and lynchings. Perhaps if they don't leave someone is going to suggest the Final Solution.

Southern Spain used to contain a sizeable Muslim population; a result of the military conquest of Spain by Muslims. After it reverted to Christian rule the Muslim population were obliged to convert or face expulsion.

Please don't make remarks like "they can fuck off then". Historical treatment of minorities in Europe has been terrible, and the reason we now have human rights is to protect them.

Bluelady this is a democratic society and one of our fundamental concepts is that babies are human beings in their own right. They are not the property of their parents, and all medical interventions should be made in their own best interests, not to fit in with the religious beliefs of their parents. If that's incompatible with someone's religious beliefs, then thats just tough really.
Well done to Iceland, and I hope other countries follow suit. I believe the UK will eventually.

Look. Enough. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Nowhere have I said I don't mind. All I've done is state facts.

I’m amazed that anyone can defend it tbh