To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

Claire what a ridiculous comment to make.

How can a baby make the personal preference at 8 days to have it cut off> this is the whole point of the thread you cannot choose at that age and no one should be allowed to choose what happens to your body

It's a "personal preference" over someone else's body!!! How far do we go with THAT then?? 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

*because there are horror stories for absolutely everything

I've always hated having big boobs, so I'm going to make sure my daughter doesn't have the same issue by giving her hormone treatments to stop them growing, or possibly just sign her up for an early mastectomy.

What?

It's just my "personal preference", no big deal.

seriously - what's a two tier system?

I agree there are horror stories for everything yolo but

I can't think of any other procedure done to a baby in non medical setting as horror stories to what I have seen and read on Circumcision except FGM

Claire a baby can have no personal preference. And it's irreversible.

Most of the stories of boys bleeding to death happen in "back alley" clinics done by unqualified people - for medical purposes, done by a qualified surgeon, with anaesthetic and the right aftercare it's generally considered a very safe op.

This debate won't end though because to religious people, "religious reasons" are totally legit reasons whereas to secular people, they are not.

StatelessPrincess the NHS doesn't recommend surgery before 5 as the cartilage isn't strong enough, GOSH doesn't recommend it before 6. It is a shame that people aren't given more support with splinting a baby's prominent ears as it can be very successful avoiding the need for surgery for many.

Stateless I was referring to the NHS guidelines. I certainly would not agree with it being done at 3 or 4, or being done without the understanding and agreement of the child. Private clinics should be brought into line with NHS practice.
Having said that, it's done to correct a deformity, unlike the removal of healthy foreskins.

I remember the case of David Reimer, a terrible tragedy with his penis being destroyed by a doctor cauterizing after circumcision. The tragedy went on with doctors deciding to castrate him, give him female hormones and let him believe he was a girl. He found out and started to live as a male but in the end committed suicide in his 30s.

Even if there is a very small chance of a child being mutilated is it worth it?

I would feel very uncomfortable with this ban being introduced to the UK.

Granny, surely not, that sounds so un true.

But its a very powerful thing to stand over a babies gentiles and decide to change them forever.

It'll never happen here.

@Bluelady

It’s must give you great pleasure to know that the right of parent to inflict unnecessary pain on their tiny baby because of their belief in the supernatural is safe in the hands of our government.

I think it’s high time we as a society stopped having so much respect for religion.

We’re supposed to be intelligent human beings and yet some of us live in a fantasy world and the rest of us have to pussyfoot around humouring the believers for some reason.

People should be free to believe in anything they like BUT if it impacts others, especially those who are unable to form an opinion and give consent to having parts lopped off then they need to be stopped.

David Reimer do you mean SeriouslycanitgetWORSE? It was a BBC documentary years ago, at that time he was still living as a girl and it was hailed as a great success. It later came out that the doctor overseeing the castration, reconstruction and female hormones had lied and misled the press about the big success. I'll google it, I'm sure there will be evidence.

noeffingidea Sorry I was talking about private clinics. I think calling protruding ears a deformity is pushing it but people see things differently I suppose.

PonderLand, please don't let a MN thread influence your choice for what's best for your son. If two highly trained NHS doctors are recommending the procedure, I think you can be pretty certain he'll benefit from it. They would have no reason to suggest something that wouldn't improve his life.

We’re supposed to be intelligent human beings and yet some of us live in a fantasy world

^^ even in a split half religious and half atheist family with plenty of robust debate going on - and not even being forced to church or Sunday school etc its had a hold on me for a long time! Esp when your around people where you dont feel comfortable discussing it - ie religious school.

Its very easy to see how a mixture of education /brain washing...family pressures and then society pressures literally all coerce people into this tunnel

It gives me no pleasure whatsoever, Suburban. Although I imagine your unwarranted nastiness gives you plenty.

Id like to see the Stats on people taking dc with so called protruding ears to back street clinics to get them cut off and then end up admitted to hospital with serious complications.
Because they thoughts thats what you do and we have always done it

StatelessPrincess

Your answers to why we should allow circumcision have either been (I'm paraphrasing):

It's cultural imperialism to think it's wrong to mutilate children's genitals

Or

What about these other surgeries that happen?

Do you think either of those answers justifies circumcision?

I'll ask again (for the fourth or fifth time)

What positive reason can you give for non medical circumcision other than 'because my religion/culture demands it'?

SeriouslycanitgetWORSE this is a link www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/dr_money_prog_summary.shtml.