To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

@bluepears not all Christians feel circumcision is a part of their faith. There are some who do however though Christians are far less known for this than Jews and Muslims

most Christians do not practise circumcision if they do it is not because of there religion

Oh Lordy

Ear piercing is stabbing now

Must remember to tell my future therapist I was stabbed when I was three that alone is few months work

But banning the circumcision of babies and young children in Iceland doesn't mean those children won't be circumcised. The parents will just take them over to a country that will do it and bring them back to Iceland when they have recovered enough to travel.
nirvana fallacy

Change happens slowly. As country banning it sends out a big message. Mauve the old guard won't question it and dislike being challenged but younger people will have a clear message to think about.
It's all we can get entrenched people to do is just think for a moment.. Don't sleep walk into this..

I'm seeing that part of meetings the fockers in a new light now

So why don't Christians circumcise when Judaism and Islam are also Abrahamic religions?

I must admit my knowledge of the bible/Torah/Quran is sparse in that respect.

I'm not religious, so it's not something that ever crossed my mind. I do think it's an awful thing to do to babies though, but I also think the same of piercing babies ears too. They are both things that should be left till they are old enough to decide for themselves.

@bluepears I expect the Christians who do perform it would argue with you that it WAS because of their religion tbh

So why don't Christians circumcise when Judaism and Islam are also Abrahamic religions? new testament against it although its the leaders of religions that decide what to do as already mentioned circumcision is not in the quran and the Torah appears to condemn it in one part 'You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh on account of the dead or tattoo any marks upon you: I am the Lord."'

All she said to me was that mothers and father should be made to watch what they've chosen to inflict on their babies. In my culture the parents are always with their sons when it's done, the practice is definitely not dying out.
Small children can get cosmetic surgery (otoplasty) in the UK, why does nobody make a thread about that instead of snidely looking for an excuse to call Jews and Muslims barbaric child abusers

'@bluepears I expect the Christians who do perform it would argue with you that it WAS because of their religion tbh' and you would be wrong no doubt you can find the odd 1 or two people but christian teaching and practise is clearly against it but every major denomination is against it pretty clearly.

Norbert, I can answer a bit of your question, though I am afraid I don't know much about the Quran. The New Testament teaches that Christians don't need to be circumcised - as the symbol for belonging in the community of God after Jesus is to baptism rather than circumcision. But we believe the old testament (i.e. the Jewish religious book) as a record of God's interaction with his people, where God required circumcision at that time. Jesus himself was a Jew and was circumcised. For these reasons while it is not required for us you will also not find many observant Christians teaching that it is outright wrong as that would be inconsistent with our own scriptures.

As I don't see it as required I myself wouldn't circumcise my child, but I think parents should make the decision. My husband is "cut", which is normal for an American, and it really isn't something that keeps him up at night.

I don't agree with plastic surgery on children without medical need either but how many are being rushed to a and with life insurance threatening illness due to it? Medical procedures with no anesthetic .

No one should be allowed to violate another's body in any way. The child when becomes of age can makes thier own choice.

My son had a tight foreskin, over the course of his life he has tried all sorts of ways to rectify it, but it ended up needing surgery at 15.

The Dr was adamant that he didn't want to circumcise him, even though it would have completely solved the problem, he said it takes away sensitivity and he'll thank him for it later. He operated and gave him a dorsal slit operation.

Now at 21, we spoke about it the other day, DS is sexually active and he said he was sooooo glad he wasn't circumcised.

I need to move to Iceland I think.

What's all the g*d shit?

@JoeyMaynardssolidlump

Indeed!

The fact that's is unacceptable for a man to have his mouth on the genitals of an infant in everyday society but is excused by religion is appalling!

What worse is the fact that babies died from this! By way of the herpes virus! 🤢!

Orthodox Jews do not write the full name of God, or say it, he is referred to as HaShem (The Name) and God is written G-d. "What's with the G-d shit?" is very rude and offensive!

It's good to see some that still follow the religions condemning the practice on this thread.

I can’t get my head around the argument (often made on the feminist boards) that abortion should be a right until the day of birth and yet 8 days later removing a tiny piece of foreskin is child abuse.

There is a lot of argument here about ‘rationality’ and yet it is a complete item of faith that something miraculous happens on the day of birth.

My DF was born in a US army hospital in another country, has spent most of his life in GB. He was circumcised at birth. He told me he wishes he hadn't been and as a child protection social worker he considered it abuse.

Also, if you approve of childhood vaccination you cannot argue for a child’s bodily autonomy. If you vaccinate you are causing pain in return for what you feel is long term gain. So is a parent who elects for circumcision.

You can argue about degree of suffering vs benefit provided but you cannot make an absolutist argument about bodily autonomy.

Childhood vaccinations have evidence based, long term, proven health benefits. The two are not comparable.

They are comparable in exactly the way I have described. They help define the argument.

What 'long term gain' is that then?

Parents DO cause their children short term pain for long term gain. Very few argue against this.

The argument this becomes the degree of pain vs the degree of gain. Vaccines do not necessarily even provide a gain, merely mitigate a risk. Most of us still think this is clearly worthwhile.

The thing people need to get their head around is that, for some people, cultural/religious gain is as important as medical gain. Again it is a question of degree of pain vs degree of gain. So far most civilised societies (not quite sure where Iceland lies on this scale) feel that this decision is best left to parents, which I agree with.