Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

999 replies

GladAllOver · 19/02/2018 16:10

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

OP posts:
howrudeforme · 19/02/2018 22:34

Lynettescavo - and I’d guess it would be performed under appropriate medical conditions and any religious aspects would be an afterthought to a safe medical procedure that has the potential to extend lifespan.

PatriarchyPersonified · 19/02/2018 22:35

Tot

Science is the study of the universe. God (if he or they) exist is part of the universe. Why should science not be able to be concerned with his existence?

Its only 'bizarre' to think that if you haven't already presupposed that a God exists and that you know at least some of his characteristics. Which God do you believe in? Allah, Yahweh, Thor, Ahura Mazda? At last count there were over 3000 to choose from.

With (by your own admission) no evidence of any of them, I think I'll hold off on cutting the end of my son's dick off to keep them happy. At least until I see something a bit more convincing.

BoneyBackJefferson · 19/02/2018 22:35

BarbarianMum
I am a bit, shall we say, sceptical, about the claims at how totally horrendous it is, mostly because it is so widely practised and yet most men who were circumcised as babies seem not to be too bothered.

How would they know any different if they were done as babies?

SuburbanRhonda · 19/02/2018 22:36

I cannot comprehend how any parent could ignore their fundamental instinct to protect their child from harm, in order to support an outdated, cruel and unnecessary ritual.

BeauMirchoff · 19/02/2018 22:36

@beepthemeep oh yes, the COMMUNITY. I know. The first thing that the COMMUNITY asked when my son was born was whether he was halal.
Hmm

beepthemeep · 19/02/2018 22:36

But - isn't believing in something that you can't see or touch or smell or understand, just because you are told to by your parents or your pastor the very definition of "irrational"??

EnthusiasmIsDisturbed · 19/02/2018 22:37

samG76

Very good post and totally agree

No doubt this will be one of UKIP’s new policies they might have a few new members judging by how passionate some are about the subject

BeauMirchoff · 19/02/2018 22:38

@SuburbanRhonda EXACTLY! I couldn't and can't understand it either!!!

PatriarchyPersonified · 19/02/2018 22:38

Tot

Irrational

Adjective

1. Not logical or reasonable.

Religion is irrational.

beepthemeep · 19/02/2018 22:40

It's like st anselm's ontological proposition - to oversimplify it, if you can imagine the perfect being, He must exist.

Oh well, that's me convinced, then. I'm imagining the perfect lemon meringue pie right now - how come THAT hasn't sprung into existence right in front of my waiting fork?!

ThatsWotSheSaid · 19/02/2018 22:44

I agree that it should be illegal but because it’s so contentious any ban would have to be done very sensitively so that minority groups don’t feel discriminated against.

SlackPanther · 19/02/2018 22:45

I have a friend who was a midwife in a Muslim area, and witnessed many circumcisions. She said many of the babies went blue and hiccuped and gulped in shock with the pain, unable to breathe.

samG76 · 19/02/2018 22:45

Thank you enthusiasm. Unsurprisingly, UKIP is the only party the majority of whose supporters back a ban on circumcision. This might give some of the posters food for thought (but probably won't).

TotHappy · 19/02/2018 22:48

Patriarchy - no, if he exists as he is supposed to exist by classical Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu and Sikh theology, then he is not part of the universe. He couldn't be, logically, if he created it. So direct scientific evidence is logically impossible. There are however, other kinds of evidence - philosophical, experiential, historical. What I'm saying is that there is a chain of reasoning involved. It's naive to assume that religion is irrational, when some of the best minds who we have access to have been thoughtfully reasoning it out for millennia. There's a breath taking arrogance in the assumption that they must all have been irrational idiots - we're talking about most people, in the world now and in the past.
Beep - i think there's an element of taking things on trust in most of our beliefs - i haven't proven, myself, the second law of thermodynamics, but i do believe it because i a) trust those who have made a study of it that they know what they're talking about and b) trust that they wouldn't lie to me about it. I think it's fair to do the same with religion, to rely on experts as long as you weigh up the credentials of those experts i.e. Their trustworthiness. Blind faith, no questioning, would and does definitely spiral into irrationality.
I don't think circumcision is a hill to die on. But then I'm not a Jew. But i do believe in pointing it out when people appropriate science unquestioningly, disregarding all other aspects of logical thought and then have the balls to call others irrational.

BertrandRussell · 19/02/2018 22:49

“everyone agrees that those who disagree with them are evil abusers who should leave the country”
No they don’t. Everybody does not agree with that at all. But people who want to throw a smoke screen over the consent issue say things like that to try to wrong foot people who simply think it is wrong to perform non medically advised body changing surgery on someone who cannot consent, regardless of the religion or lack of religion of that person’s parents.

BeauMirchoff · 19/02/2018 22:49

@SlackPanther no no no SadSadSad poor babies!!!

joystir59 · 19/02/2018 22:51

It's child abuse. Just because it's a cultural norm.in some countries or faith does not excuse it. FGM is a cultural norm in some countries. Does that make it ok?

WitchesHatRim · 19/02/2018 22:52

@samG76 I agree and now it seems to be turned into a pop at anyone who has a faith, by some posters.

GColdtimer · 19/02/2018 22:52

Totally agree Bertrand.

SuburbanRhonda · 19/02/2018 22:52

On a day when we hear of two parents who physically abused their baby so badly that he had to have his legs amputated, there are people on here arguing for their right to physically harm their child for no reason?

Fuck off with that.

SersioulycanitgetWORSE · 19/02/2018 22:53

Confused what! Sam have you watched the that video?have you? Have you you read a single thing on this thread?

joystir59 · 19/02/2018 22:53

Touching women in the street is a cultural norm called 'Eve teasing'in India and stoning women is a cultural norm in Iran. Both totally wrong. 'Culture' is no excuse

beepthemeep · 19/02/2018 22:53

But witches - if you're going to use faith to justify a surgical procedure on someone vulnerable who can't consent to it, surely that is worthy of analysis, not blind acceptance? Confused

WitchesHatRim · 19/02/2018 22:56

But witches - if you're going to use faith to justify a surgical procedure on someone vulnerable who can't consent to it, surely that is worthy of analysis, not blind acceptance?

Not everyone is though.

Quite a few have said they do have faith but don't agree with circumcision.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 19/02/2018 22:56

I don’t care if UKIP would also support this ban. Even broken clocks are right twice a day.

The point is that inflicting a permanent mutilation on a helpless child is indefensible. Never mind religion or culture. It’s just fucking WRONG.