To hope that we can follow Iceland in banning male circumcision

[GladAllOver]

It really is time that this nasty practice is stopped.
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/18/iceland-ban-male-circumcision-first-european-country

A baby is free to choose whether or not they belong to a religion when they grow up. It is fundamentaly not a parents right to choose their children's religion. And therefore parents should leave alone.

And, contrary to what people are trying to tell us on here, there are men who complain. But they don't have the option to be unmutilated. It should never have been done to them in the first place.

Human rights freedom to choose. Trumps cultural or religious practices each and every time.

@PatriarchyPersonified I didn't say ear piercing was the same as circumcision I was using it as another example of modification that people make to babies and toddlers without their consent.

Apart from anything else, wouldn't it be more of a demonstration of your devotion to your "god" to have it done when you were old enough to decide for yourself?

If your devotion to your particular brand of deity requires you to mutilate your children, then you are demonstrating one of the huge problems with religions.

I don't think many on here are saying no men complain. Some of us are wondering why more men don't complain, given the millions who are circumcised at birth. It's not like men are generally slow in shaping society to accomodate their desires.

Kaytee87

And I wasn't addressing you personally.

You are correct that they aren't comparable. Circumcision isnt really reversible. (There are ways to 'stretch' the skin back apparently but the sensetivety of the penis can never recover.)

And if you find out you don't wish to be that religion when older - which you have ever right to - can it be put back lizzie? That's the problem. There are support groups for men who have had this done against their will.

Unless it's medically necessary no one should be chopping parts off a baby's penis. Or vulva.

Don't care what "god" apparently tells you to do this. It's barbaric and it's robbing children of the opportunity of fulfilling sex lives when they get older

Who honestly thinks it's ok to do.

Poor babies.

Leave their privates alone

Someone upthread asked why it is important to Muslims. Before Islam came to what is now the 'Islamic World', it was common amongst the tribes of these regions to practice circumcision and FGM in some places, too. So it does have cultural rather than religious origins.

In terms of the religion itself, the belief is that Mohammed was born without a foreskin, so it is to match with that. There's also a hygiene element, the pre-prayer washing ritual is pretty important. There are schools of thought that say that as Mohammed wasn't circumcised but apparently born that way, men don't need to alter their own bodies in any way either.

Also, circumcision is not essential in Islam, but it is recommended. My husband is Muslim, but my sons aren't circumcised. Caused issues with my in laws, but I didn't care. I'm very much against it, and would like to see it outlawed.

Smiths - you say "proportionate". I say "slippery slope". Either you agree that a parent has the right to modify a child's body without consent or you don't.

The captains cat so it's more tradition then.

I think it was a pre-Islamic cultural tradition of the areas that became Muslim, which got amalgamated with the religion. So has been a part of the religion for centuries. However, it's not essential like somebody was insisting earlier. It's a recommended practice. You can be an uncircumcised Muslim. A change in mentality, or law if necessary, would mean it didn't happen anymore, and people could still practice their religion!

I suspected so, so much gets carried forward generation upon generation without thoughts...

I have recently been listening to the fiddler on the the roof musical... Great first song... Tradition... We don't know why it's so it's tradition..

YANBU. it's hard to believe it is legal

The way I see it, the foreskin serves no purpose. It's an extra bit of skin

You could say the same about labia. Would you want yours or your newborns chopped off?

It'll never be challenged because it's the thin end of the wedge for all other non-physical forms of indoctrination. If you allow the 'wait until their old enough' argument to prevail, the same could be said of many religious observances (eg making children go to church/mosque/temple/synagogue). Too much vested interest from organised religion to allow it to happen.

I don't like ti watch the news much but today it was child cruelty after the child cruelty and British worst pedophile got 32 years, another couple got the maximum sentence of ten years for harming a child who survived.

Ten years is the maximum sentence for hurting a baby so badly his legs have been amputated and he has life changing injuries. They will be free in ten years to carry on their lives.

I have said it many times we don't value children enough in the UK, we need harsher sentences for anyone Harming children. To me it's as bad as the America gun laws.

Someone upthread said it was tantamount to religious persecution to ban it. Oh do fuck off. I'm as liberal as they come but I draw the line at fucking around with children's genitals for 'religious reasons'. I think it should be banned in every country. Let the child grow up, learn about these 'religious reasons', then decide for themselves whether to get it done.

It shocks me that this is even an issue in the UK today. How can mutilating babies ever be OK? I need a petition to sign.

Love the cultural superiority and insistence that some 1 billion circumcised men in the world are abused even though the vast majority of said circumcised men would disagree. There are good reasons for and against but dont think you know best becuse it's not part of your culture.

Fyi, circumcision is easy and straightforward in babies and much more complicated in older children and adults.

Anyway, silly debate because it won't be outlawed in the UK thank goodness and no one buys into the abuse rubbish (which is really offensive to people who genuinely have been abused).

So to all those saying 'fuck off then' or 'get out the country' (charming sentiments which are clearly based in concern for foreskins) can fuck.off themselves to iceland if it bothers them that much (although may not even be passed in iceland)

I have been to a number of circumcisions (starting with my own which I don't remember!) and I have heard more crying from a child with a nappy pin accidentally stuck in it or just a serious pain in the tum. It lasts a moment.

Does it affect sexual performance or pleasure for either party? There being no control version of me it's impossible to say.

If you want to ban it but you say you aren't anti-Semitic or Islamophobic - perhaps you aren't but you are giving aid and comfort to the enemy. Lay off.

But dont you realise you were abused Andrew? Mumsnt has determined you were.

Your. Culture. Is. Not. A. Good. Reason. To. Justify. Anything. That. Affects. Someone. Else's. Body.

It doesn't matter a damn which culture it is!

"Love the cultural superiority"

Love the fact that some people are so indoctrinated to still believe that chopping bits of a baby is acceptable in any form when it is not for medical reasons