Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Trump Talk: or, Lift every voice and sing

989 replies

lionheart · 17/02/2018 19:58

It's Black History Month and the fight goes on (plus, we all need a boost that does not come from ye olde hop flask).

Lift every voice and sing

Till earth and heaven ring,
Ring with the harmonies of Liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise
High as the listening skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us.

Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on till victory is won.

Stony the road we trod,
Bitter the chastening rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;

Yet with a steady beat,
Have not our weary feet
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered,
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered,
Out from the gloomy past,

Till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

God of our weary years,

God of our silent tears,
Thou who hast brought us thus far on the way;
Thou who hast by Thy might

Led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee,
Lest, our hearts drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee;
Shadowed beneath Thy hand,

May we forever stand.

True to our God,
True to our native land.

James Weldon Johnson (1900)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
34
Fekko · 22/02/2018 08:40

My sister teaches in the states. She is under 5 foot, hates guns and is in her 60s. Christ almighty, more guns is the answer?

cozietoesie · 22/02/2018 08:53

To some, it seems so. Guess they like the feeling of weaponry.

OP posts:
OP posts:
lionheart · 22/02/2018 09:36

Youtube is often left out of the equation when we talk of bots and propaganda, with Facebook and Twitter front and centre. But I have seen so much orchestrated hatred directed against those who resist (especially the women) on this site. Glad the spotlight is finally focussed here--even if it just until the next news cycle.

www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/feb/21/youtube-florida-teenagers-actors-videos-conspiracy-theories-promotion-results

OP posts:
OP posts:
OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 09:58

On Mike Farb and his credibility:

Rawstory and newsweek picked up a story based on what Farb had done work on re: Al Franken's resignation being driven by bots. This caused some scrutiny to fall upon him, particularly by someone who was involved in the story.

Ijeoma Oluo‏Verified account
@IjeomaOluo
1)This story is once again making the rounds, & I need to point out a glaring inaccuracy in it:

NONE of these bot accts actually linked to my article.

Cont...

FURTHER: when you click on the links provided by this bot, you get an image of the top of my article.... followed by ads. Ads that have nothing to do with Al Franken or politics

And when you click on "Read More" you are taken to.....

More ads.

And one small link to my article

So how effective was this ingenious Russian bot campaign at spreading my article and therefore somehow bringing down Al Franken?

Let's look at the numbers.

First of all, it wasn't all that popular an article. Here's views for that one compared to some others of mine

[there are lots of links and photos embedded so it's best to check it out yourself twitter.com/IjeomaOluo/status/965647897785061376 ]

The key bit that stood out for me:

Ijeoma Oluo‏Verified account
@IjeomaOluo
Now I could have cleared this up immediately if anybody writing these articles had reached out to me.

But did Mike Farb reach out?
Did @RawStory?
Did @Newsweek?

Nah. Such reporting. Great job.

[...]And the final, most glaring issue with these pieces: my article didn't come out until AFTER Al Franken had announced his resignation

[...]Here's further clarification from Snopes www.snopes.com/2018/02/19/bots-force-al-franken-resign/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social

Caroline O. has been trying to analyse his data with little success, along with others

Caroline O.‏
@RVAwonk
I've now gotten (at least) 3 different responses to requests for Mike Farb's/UnhackTheVote's data.

1st: Called me a liar & claimed it was already avail (it's not).
2nd: Said he couldn't make the downloadable data avail. b/c it could be manipulated (& attacked me again).
3rd: Was told by someone else on his "team" that they couldn't release the data b/c it has personal info that they don't want to publicize.

Quick explainer on why none of those responses is a valid reason for not making data public ...

twitter.com/RVAwonk/status/966519968350302208

Other people are also concerned:

T. Greg Doucette
‏***@greg_doucette
I appreciate @RVAwonk*'s work. I took a brief look at Farb's UnhackTheVote stuff at a friend's request last year and it was 💩

T. Greg Doucette‏Verified account
@greg_doucette
Follow Follow @greg_doucette
More T. Greg Doucette Retweeted Josh Harris
What he characterizes as "scary" Election Day vote totals look totally normal to me given NC voting practices and past vote results

[it's a long thread that can be found here: twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/880267657601306629 ]

And

Dr Kelly Sennholz
‏*@MtnMD*
More Dr Kelly Sennholz Retweeted Caroline O.
Just FYI: @RVAWonk my experience w/ Farb is the SAME as yours. The very MINUTE I asked a Q, I was blocked. He didn't even try to answer my Q's as w/u, just blocked. Similar 2 other individuals on twitter running stories they cannot back up or hv conflicting info. #StudentsStandUP

And

Bonnie Boyd‏
@BonnieCeit
Clear this up. Or all of your work is compromised.
Your work's value comes from accuracy. Be accurate.

Adam Parkhomenko
‏*@AdamParkhomenko*
More Adam Parkhomenko Retweeted Bonnie Boyd
Hey @mikefarb1: many of us have vouched, amplified, and followed your work closely. Important to clear up anything around this to ensure that work in the past is not undermined, and future posts can be taken seriously.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 10:26

On Sanders' reaction to the Russian indictments:

Vermont Public Radio‏Verified account
@vprnet
"I did not know Russian bots were promoting my campaign."

"The real question to be asked is" why the Clinton campaign didn't do something.

@SenSanders

Listen live

➡️ digital.vpr.net

People are understandably pissed off at his reaction

Article: Bernie blames Hillary for allowing Russian interference
www.politico.com/story/2018/02/21/bernie-sanders-trump-russia-interference-420528

Analysis: www.shakesville.com/2018/02/bernie-sanders-what-are-you-even.html

Pé Resists
‏*@4everNeverTrump*
More Pé Resists Retweeted Vermont Public Radio
To be clear: Bernie Sanders is making a near-identical argument that Trump has made.
Not a good look.

[Also, "I did not know" is at odds with this from July 2017

BERNIE SANDERS SAYS 'IT'S NO GREAT SECRET' RUSSIA WAS TRYING TO DIVIDE DEMOCRATS AGAINST HILLARY

www.newsweek.com/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-emails-russian-hackers-kremlin-democratic-639292 ]

From last week:

Bernie Sanders‏Verified account
@BernieSanders
It has been clear to everyone (except Donald Trump) that Russia was deeply involved in the 2016 election and intends to be involved in 2018. It is the American people who should be deciding the political future of our country, not Mr. Putin and the Russian oligarchs.

It is absolutely imperative that the Mueller investigation be allowed to go forward without obstruction from the Trump administration or Congress.
8:23 pm - 16 Feb 2018

Asha Rangappa‏Verified account
@AshaRangappa_
More Asha Rangappa Retweeted Bernie Sanders
The indictment makes clear that they were pushing you, too, @SenSanders. And it's interesting that you also were very quick to claim that our processes were "rigged" as long as you were losing. Coincidence?

Oh, and not to make it more awkward for @SenSanders, but let's not forget the he was ONE OF ONLY TWO senators who voted AGAINST the Russia sanctions bill last July 🤔🤔🤔

Sarah Kendzior
‏*@sarahkendzior*
More Sarah Kendzior Retweeted Asha Rangappa
Sanders was also one of only four Senators to vote against the Magnitsky Act in 2012.

Sanctions are at the heart of Russian election interference. Sanders' 2012 vote was a sign he would not support future sanctions against Russia -- and, in 2017, he didn't.

Russian/Guns crossover:

Selena Adera 🍩‏
@Selena_Adera
A flushed and stuttering Bernie appeared on MTP, said PoC FB pages were also attacked, never mentioning they didn't fall for Russian misogyny.

THE BEAUTY:

4:29 mark, asked about his voting record against Gun Control, Bernie loses his cool, YELLS & LIES.

www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-sanders-interview-obama-was-in-a-difficult-position-on-russia-1164410435646

Al Giordano
‏*@AlGiordano*
More Al Giordano Retweeted Selena Adera 🍩
If anyone in an office or workplace started shouting, interrupting and finger waving like this, he'd be called to the Human Resources office and given a warning. If he kept it up, he'd be fired. That's why the bros identify with him. He is doing what they want to do but can't.

From the same interview:

Bernie Sanders resurrects a ‘zombie’ claim on gun sales without background checks

www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/02/20/bernie-sanders-resurrects-a-zombie-claim-on-gun-sales-without-background-checks/?utm_campaign=cfcpac&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_term=.bc5fe04296c9

“We have to end the absurdity of the gun show loophole. Forty percent of the guns in this country are sold without any background checks.”
— Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), on NBC’s “Meet the Press,” Feb. 18, 2018

At The Fact Checker, we sometimes encounter “zombie claims” — false facts that keep getting repeated, no matter how often we fact-check them.

We thought we had long ago buried this false claim that 40 percent of guns are sold without a background check. But it has once again risen from the dead! Let’s explore.

[...]But Sanders now has even less of an excuse than Obama. That’s because in 2017, researchers at Harvard University and Northeastern University finally published a new survey — and they found that 22 percent of gun owners who reported obtaining a firearm in the previous two years did so without a background check. That’s almost half the percentage of the old figure.

Moreover, among purchased firearms, the figure was 13 percent. That’s one-third of Sanders’s 40 percent claim. Once again, nonpurchased firearms (such as those acquired via a gift or inheritance) accounted for a large share of the weapons obtained without a background check.

Though Sanders referred to the “gun show loophole,” not a single person surveyed said they obtained a weapon at a gun show without a background check.

“Senator Sanders on Meet the Press provided the best information he had at the time,” said spokesman Josh Miller-Lewis. “It appears the number he cited may be outdated. But whether it’s 40 percent or 22 percent of guns being acquired without a background check, millions of Americans still obtain guns without background checks. That’s absurd. No one should be allowed to purchase a gun without a vigorous background check.”

The Pinocchio Test
It’s bad enough that politicians four years ago were using stale data and mischaracterizing it. But now that the research has been updated, Sanders has even less excuse for relying on two-decade-old figures. The most recent research indicates that just 13 percent of guns — not 40 percent — are purchased without a background check.

Sanders earns Four Pinocchios. Please, folks, let’s keep this zombie stat buried from now on.

Four Pinocchios

On his dogwhistles:

Pᴀᴛʀɪᴄᴋ Kᴀʀʟssᴏɴ ⛈‏
@Patrickesque
“People in urban America have got to appreciate that the overwhelming majority of people who hunt/know/respect guns are law abiding people. That’s the truth.”

“And people in rural America have got to understand that in urban America, ‘guns’ mean something very very different.”

“..I understand that guns in [Vermont] are different than guns in Chicago or Los Angeles...”

David A. Benner 🦅
‏*@davidabenner*
More David A. Benner 🦅 Retweeted Pᴀᴛʀɪᴄᴋ Kᴀʀʟssᴏɴ ⛈
Vermont’s gun ownership rate is below the national average. It has a low gun homicide rate but only because it has a low homicide rate overall. VT’s gun death rate ranks higher than its gun ownership rate, which is damning to Sanders.

[the insinuation being white vermont guns = fine! happy hunting past times! black chicago urban guns = a problem]

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 10:27

Whoops, that was much longer than I thought it would be Blush Sorry

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 10:28

The shakesville article is worth a read

ohfortuna · 22/02/2018 10:33

It feels like trump and the NRA want to turn schools into prisons
Kill off any freethinkers, don't let students flourish and develop new ideas keep them all scared and locked down
Maintain the power and authority of The Old Guard and of course lots of profits for the gun manufacturers as America become an arms race where everyone has more and more and more powerful weapons

ohfortuna · 22/02/2018 10:40

Bit of a tangent but this podcast is quite interesting on the subject of Russian oligarchs and how Putin came to be in such a powerful position
www.hiddenforcespod.com/bill-browder-russia/

'It is a story about the plundering of Russian industries and resources by the oligarchs and the consolidation of power in the hands of Vladimir Putin. How did the promises of reform and the opening of Soviet Russia by Mikhail Gorbachev in the 1980’s, lead so quickly to the traumatic redistribution of wealth into the hands of a tiny kleptocracy? What were the mechanisms that facilitated this plundering, and what role have ill-gotten gains played in the mechanics of post-soviet Russia? How important is corruption to the functioning of the Russian state? How would a curtailing of bribery, fraud, and murder represent an existential threat to the current regime?'

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 11:05

Christopher Miller
‏*@ChristopherJM*
More Christopher Miller Retweeted Alexey Navalny
Navalny says he's been detained in Moscow after leaving the dentist's office and is being driven...somewhere.

.@navalny keeps his sense of humor, saying his sad face isn't because he's been detained, but because his tooth hurts. Russian police nabbed him as he exited the dentist.

twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/966622298261336064

Kevin Rothrock
‏*@KevinRothrock*
For those of you not following along, the detentions of Navalny and his campaign manager (just moments ago) likely means 30-day jail sentences for organizing protests last month. This will keep them behind bars for Russia’s March 18 presidential election.

Lweji · 22/02/2018 11:55

I hope nobody inserted cyanide in his tooth.

lionheart · 22/02/2018 12:07

'With tensions flaring between President Donald Trump and national security adviser Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster, the Pentagon is considering options that would allow the President to potentially move the three-star general out of his current role and back into the military, according to half a dozen defense and administration officials.'

edition.cnn.com/2018/02/22/politics/hr-mcmaster-future-trump-white-house/index.html

OP posts:
OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 12:43

Oh good, that'll help. More chaos and uncertainty if McMAster goes

Donald J. Trump‏Verified account
@realDonaldTrump
I never said “give teachers guns” like was stated on Fake News @CNN & @NBC. What I said was to look at the possibility of giving “concealed guns to gun adept teachers with military or special training experience - only the best. 20% of teachers, a lot, would now be able to

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 12:51

....immediately fire back if a savage sicko came to a school with bad intentions. Highly trained teachers would also serve as a deterrent to the cowards that do this. Far more assets at much less cost than guards. A “gun free” school is a magnet for bad people. ATTACKS WOULD END!

Lweji · 22/02/2018 12:58

Attacks would just move elsewhere...

Why not give religious ministers guns too, in case someone invades cult places?

Life guards with guns.

Bus drivers with guns.

Scout leaders with guns.

Waiting staff with guns.

OuaisMaisBon · 22/02/2018 13:00

I'm sorry, excuse me, I dislike swearing in writing, but fuck me, that idiot Trump is an utter cockwomble.

ohfortuna · 22/02/2018 13:01

Obviously the endgame is for everyone to be armed
💲💲💲💲💲💲💲 for the gun manufacturers

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 13:02

He hasn't finished but I can't stomach any more.

lweji I liked this tweet

Kumail Nanjiani
@kumailn

Teachers should have guns.

Principals should have guns.

Waiters should have guns.

Tailors should have guns.

Doctors should have guns.

Nurses should have guns.

Uber drivers should have guns.

Dogs should have guns.

Cats should have guns.

Guns should also have other guns.

blueskyinmarch · 22/02/2018 13:14

That is the most sickening tweet storm i have ever seen. He is deranged.

OnTheDarkSideOfTheSpoon · 22/02/2018 13:25

He's said many things before re: Dreamers etc and then flip flopped so in all likelihood, once he's been spoken to by the NRA/GOP, he'll change his mind but:

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
I will be strongly pushing Comprehensive Background Checks with an emphasis on Mental Health. Raise age to 21 and end sale of Bump Stocks! Congress is in a mood to finally do something on this issue - I hope!

Swipe left for the next trending thread