To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

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So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

All my friends and family owned their own homes. The only exception my grandparents, who lived in a council house. (I'm in my 60s)

I'm one of the 'older generation '
....I had to go back to work full time after dd1 was born , when she was only 14 weeks old and I'd had an emcs
didn't get extended maternity leave in those days
Dh didn't get any paternity leave at all
Didn't get any help with nursery / childcare costs( did get child allowance)
I didn't have a car until I was 24 and married...and then we only had 1 small car
Didn't go on foreign holidays ( holday was visiting relatives)
When we did buy flat, most of furniture was second hand , didn't buy on credit....
mortgage interest rates were 15%
Didn't have mobile phones or internet or social media telling us that we 'have to have/buy latest gadget'
Only small percentage of people went to university, so jobs we got when graduated paid reasonably well as graduates were well regarded
Equality in workplace was rare as were equal rights if you had a disability
.....I could go on but it would be like Groundhog Day

Houses may cost a few bob more than they did in 1972, but when I were a lass my father would come home with a sack of coal fresh from the mines every night and we wouldn't be allowed to leave the table until it was all eaten. On Friday nights we'd get second helpings as a special treat.

I bought my first house in 1981 and it were just an 'ole in the ground, my DH and I build it up into a 4 bed detached one brick at a time. Don't see many millenials doing the same these days, they expect luxury from day one.

You had second helpings we had to share one lump of coal between the 6 of us!

And also, access to education is far better now than previously. My father is a very bright man, but came from a poor background. Going to university was never even on the horizon because his parents couldn't afford it- even with grants. AN extra income into the house was valuable and he left school at the age of 16 to go to work. That was the expected route for most people where my father grew up. A lucky few got out, but really not that many. He got his degree as an adult with the help of my mother and her family.

There are issues within the current education system in terms of opportunity for those from poorer backgrounds, but the chance of getting to university or gaining training in a trade is still far better than when my parents were growing up.

Life now is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. But really, it wasn't then either. And I know I would rather be young now than then.

So if working more than 27 hours is a problem from a childcare point of view, what else can you do to bring in more money? If you have an English degree, set yourself up as a tutor. Read the exam specs online. Pays well per hour. What about Avon (I know, hated on here, but with a big social and work circle, you can make a little)? Rather than moan how hard it is, what are you doing to help yourself? Have you been on MoneySavingExpert and made sure your bills are as low as they can be? Ditto insurance costs? Do you meal plans and shop in Aldi/Lidl? Do you take the view that saving a few pence here or there will help or are you of the sod it, I’ll spend £3 on a coffee cos what difference will it make mentality? Do you shop for clothes a] only when you need something replacing and b) only in sales? Do you save £2 coins or 50ps? Do you round up to the nearest £5 in Asda and put it on a card for Xmas shopping? Do you clear the house of crap every year and put stuff on eBay or do a car boot?

Another advantage I think we had, was that you didn't need a degree for so many jobs. You could start at the bottom and if you had ability, work your way up.

I think some jobs require a degree that don't really need them.

Housing is less affordable but other things probably are more affordable than they used to be. Plus expectations of what is required to live one's life. That 'make do and mend' mentality so prevalent in the Baby Boomers (and to some extent their children) doesn't seem to exist in Millennials, as far as I can tell.

I'm almost 60, we bought our first house in 1979, and yes I think it was easier than it is now.

But: in 2 years we were able to save the equivalent of almost a years wage by scrimping, going without and (on my dh's part) lots and lots of overtime.
We moved into our very tatty semi with a bed, 2 ancient chairs and a table his grandad was getting rid of. We bought a second had cooker, had a portable black and white tv and no telephone.
We had camping holidays in a second hand tent (including our honeymoon), I made a lot of my own clothes and grew veg.
Food, clothes, holidays, technology everything was much more expensive comparatively.

Then I look at the young couples I know now : won't move in until the whole house is furnished new. Every expensive gadget going, multiple holidays, new cars, credit card debt, foreign holidays as hen
or stag doos....

Childcare was very hard to find for pre school children and it was assumed women would stop working for their "pin money" when children arrived. My wage was not taken into account for our mortgage.
The overt sexism would horrify most of the young women I know - our head of science for example would not accept girls for A levels unless they got "A" at "O" level - no such restrictions on boys. Because girls don't have scientific brains apparently.

Things have changed, yes. Some for the better and some worse. It's not the fault of your parents and grandparents you can't afford a house, but the fault of the economic system we live in.

I wonder what the antidote is to this mentality as I can see it loud and clear in my own children (teenagers) and loathe it. The "I need the latest x, y and z of everything"and the sense of entitlement.

I am thinking of taking my children to volunteer somewhere like India or Sri Lanka to see what poverty looks like, or even at a food bank in the UK if they would allow me too. I hope we can make a difference and put a break on the consumerism?

"I don't feel like I get that same level of empathy from the older generation." Perhaps because they've all read one too many newspaper articles accusing them of "stealing the family silver".

It's difficult being blamed for something that is out of your control by someone whose lifestyle and opportunities are far greater than yours were at that age.

It all boils down to choices, though, surely? You chose to have children instead of buying a small house when you were both working full time and now you need a bigger house and are earning less so it's impossible. My DH refused to rent when he left home, and took a loan out as neither his dad or stepdad would lend him any money and put a deposit down on a studio flat. By the time we met, he'd already progressed to a 1 bed flat and then a 3 bed semi where he had 2 lodgers to pay the mortgage.

Slightly off topic, but thinking about bad things from my early working days - rampant inflation in the 70s, running at something like 10%, the prices in the shops went up week on week.
The three day week, massive unemployment and the power cuts, when you had electricity 4 hours on 4 hours off, also in the 70s, and the tv closed down at 10pm.
Buying a property with no central heating, because until the mid 80s central heating was considered an expensive luxury, and the majority of houses didn't have it. Add to that, no cheap flat pack furniture to put in it, or come to that, nothing for the household was cheap.
The first (damp and cold) flat I rented, the rent was £30 a week. Wow, you might say, but I only earned £80 a week. High rents and mortgages in relation to wages are nothing new.
OP, even if you think your aibu is correct, what exactly do you expect us to do about it? The blame lies largely with government policy and the financial institutions who have successively looked at short term gain over long term stability.
Oh crap, I wasn't even going to comment, having already declared this thread boring, but there you go.

And OP to pay off the mortgage in 6 years,your parents must have been living on about equivalent of £10,000 a year for all other costs except mortgage.

I'm 28. I could have been a homeowner if I hadn't decided to keep my baby at 19... Even while working my low-paid job I'd have been able to save enough for a deposit in a few short years.

We all make our choices and we all must live by them. You chose to have children before getting on the housing ladder, just like me.

Yeah it's harder to save for a house now, but what good would it do you to hear that from your parents?

Sorry you can't get the mortgage you wanted OP.

I think it's good to have some perspective though.

You say you both work 'very' hard, but you're each only working an average of 35.5 hours a week between you. To be fair, lets take this up to 41 hours a week to account for travel to and from work.

If you sleep for the maximum recommended 8 hours - unlikely with kids , this comes to 56 hours a week each.

That leaves you 71 hours a week EACH of spare time to be spent how you like - family time, meals together, housework etc. This could easily be considered enough time for one of you to have another part time job.

Having children is of course, exhausting, and you might not want to dedicate time away from them into generating more income - which would be completely understandable, but that's a choice.

You're also both working in safe, risk assessed, environments with regulated breaks and laws to protect you from being exploited, and you have the option of a safe place to put your kids while you work. Not every generation has been as lucky as to have all of that.

I don't know for sure if things are more difficult now but do bear this in mind. When we were young our home was not so comfy. We didn't have a TV in our room (and had to share a bedroom), no CH, just one bathroom, no double glazing. None of us drove a car. There was a heck of a generation gap between us and our parents. Boyfriends not allowed upstairs. No foreign holidays, often no holidays. Saving up for new shoes. One evening out at the disco, making two drinks last all evening.

We couldn't wait to leave home for freedom away from parents. We still had to rough it. I've lived in a nurses' home, a grotty bedsit and a flat-share. Eventually met DH and shared a flat again. We bought a two-up, two-down terrace by pooling together savings for a deposit. Our first house cost £7,000 - which sounds utterly ridiculous now but it seemed a lot then. We didn't drink or smoke. What really helped was the last boom when houses prices went berserk (and we were lucky enough not to be made redundant - plenty did). I don't think I'd be in the reasonably comfortable position I'm in now otherwise.

Is it more difficult now? Probably, but then would you do leave home and go into a grotty bedsit and do without the latest technology, lots of trendy clothing, season tickets to a football team, a car, frequent weekends away? Yes and no, some of these things didn't exist when I was starting out. Perhaps also our expectations were lower.

It's not harder, you just want everything at once. Get better paying jobs, save before you have children. Give up drinking, smoking, 2 cars, take always and eating out, £3 daily coffees, mobile phones and sky t.v. Then you can maybe say you have it harder.

I think everyone generation has its challenges. Very difficult to compare. Yes property was cheaper but earnings were low for many too.

When I was 24 in 90s, I could only afford to share a rented room in N London. I earned £120pw working a bar. It was. £35 pw rent. I ate at the pub, lived on pasta and bought my clothes at the market.

I was as near to buying my own property as mist 24yos are today. IMO. Expectations are definately higher with my kids generation.

So you chose to have children before you could afford them. Now you cannot buy a property - whereas many of the people on the thread and over the generations did not have any children at all until they had already bought a house. There is your first mistake.

Second one you did English lit at university and did not pick a particularly high paid career.

Third one you only work part time - I worked full time even with tiny babies. It was tought but obviously makes it easier to buy!

I see you want the thread to read that "housing" is more difficult. Depends where you live. We have relatives in the NE and Yorkshire. I don't accept it is hard for an English lit grad who goes in a a range of the better paid career and buyes with two full time salaries before babies are on the horizon finds it that hard.

I am early forties but not sure that millennial have it harder or just different problems. I own my own house but to do so lived at home until 26, worked 60 hour weeks (between 2 jobs) when I first graduated and always had a job through uni and saved like mad. My first graduate job I had to wear a skirt because the male boss (in his 60s) liked to see women’s legs so trousers were banned until he retired and we all just accepted it!! Now the working environment has changed. However I had no tuition fees to pay. The opportunities available today are huge although the problems especially post Brexit seem large too

How tedious this is.

Do you really think that anyone over 50/60 had it easy? Mortgages at 19% - you just thank your lucky stars that interest rates are so low.

Do you think they did not work hard for what they have? - that it fell into their laps.

I am fully aware of the housing issues around today - and have done all I can, with my meagre (tiny pension) resources, to help - sharing a small legacy with the children, caring for GC while family are at work so they do not incur child care costs, paying towards holidays for them etc. etc. Our current mortgage-free situation was achieved by down-sizing at the age of 39 and cramming our children into a small home as my OH had become too ill to work full time.

Such blanket condemnation as appears in your thread title is pointless, inaccurate and helps no-one. I acknowledge that you are irked by the difficulties you are experiencing in getting a mortgage; but renting is the norm in most European countries and it may be that you have to either go down that route, or change your location - just as we had to make some very hard decisions indeed to keep our family fed, housed, clothed and well educated.

Millennials do not have a monopoly on struggle - it is part of the human condition and you cannot waste your whole life railing against it.

I know you are fed up with what has happened; but you must pick yourself up, count your blessings and stop finding innocent folk to blame. And definitely stop worrying about not having anything to hand on to your children - by the time you fall off your perch you will have spent any money you had on care. Your children need to have you cheerful, positive and teaching them how to overcome life's knocks; what you finish up being able to leave to them is neither here nor there.

Good point about second jobs, Lady. My 29 year old son used to work 60 hour weeks up till about 3 years ago. Sometimes he juggled 3 jobs (1 full and 2 part time). His best earner was pizza delivery, if anyone is interested. On a good night he made over £100.

When I lived in London in late 80's are early 90's, I struggled to pay rent on a room. During the boom lots of solicitors and the like were living in shared houses and could not afford to buy.

I don't agree with the generalisation that things are harder for the millennials.

But one thing is definitely harder, and that is getting on the housing ladder. I will happily acknowledge that all day long, and young people's justifiable anger about it.