To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

I dont know why people are citing 2nd hand furniture...most of mine is onherited from my nan down to the microwave, pans and tv. Still cant afford to save.

Much ikea stuff is cheaper than 2nd hand anyway.

I think it's the attitude. My dad has laid onto me in seveeal occasions for not having a permanent job... apparently it's because im lazy!

Hang on - you're saying the older generation shouldn't be jealous that foreign holidays were an unaffordable luxury when they were young but are accessible to the younger generation easily now, but that its perfectly acceptable for the younger generation to be jealous that the older generation could afford to buy housing in areas of the country that the younger generation cant afford to now?

There is no acknowledgement that things are harder xx

Zero hours contracts are wrong. We need strong trade unions.

For white able bodied middle class people things are worse. For anyone black, women, disabled, lesbian or gay, or poor, things are better. I am totally against the current attacks on the poor and disabled. And the Government is trying to take us backwards. But anyone who does not see that life is better for these people knows little about the past.

My boomer parents always took us abroad...not sure what the issue is.

Clyd

"And sure - buy a tiny flat in Manchester (nowhere near your job/family/friends) but good luck selling it in the future and being able to actually move up the property ladder. Life doesn’t end with that initially starter home."

About 800 (most considerably nicer than my first flat) 2 bed houses - not flats, houses - for sale within 10 miles of Manchester at less than 80k.

I'm sure there's an odd job or two in Manchester....

It's ridiculous to say it's their own fault they can't buy a house because they have foreign holidays when the foreign holidays are CHEAPER. Which is why I didn't say that.

*"As well as the other stuff like maternity rights, lesser tolerance of bullying at work, more annual leave."

But we're going backwards on these things. Conditions are not as good as they used to be and more and more people are temping or in fixed contracts.*
You;'re absolutely right there, and it's outrageous. It's partly to do with the decline of trades unions, and I would put the blame on people reaching adulthood in the 80s onwards who bought into all the anti-union sentiment. But in terms of women's opportunities, we haven't yet gone back to what it was like as a young woman in the 60s or 70s, although we seem to be doing our damnedest.

The point that is repeatedly trying to be put forward it that most would agree that things were ‘harder’ in many ways for previous generations. Indeed, a lot of the baby boomer generation starter off under hardship and had to work very hard - however, government policies in the 70-90’s have meant that the majority (obviously not all) have accrued a level of security and wealth that has only been seen in that one brief generation. It didn’t happen before and it’s certainly not going to be the case after.

The younger generation are doing nothing wrong by wanting to address how on Earth they are going to balance their ageing (often wealthier) parents care with their own financial responsibilities in the future.

Im comparing between buying a house 18 years ago and buying one now .

Were you? I thought you were agreeing with crunchymint that rents are higher then mortgages where you live and justifying this belief because someone’s 18 year old mortgage on a massive house is half the amount of the rent on your tiny flat. That’s how your post reads anyway.

Baby boomers also enjoyed plenty of luxuries - they may not have been going abroad in the 40/50s but by the 70/80s it really wasn’t that uncommon, especially trips to Europe.

The issue for me isn’t how frivolous people are in their 20’s (every generation has frivolous people). The point is that hard work, degree debt, unpaid internships, good careers, scrimping and saving is unlikely to result in the same level of comfort that baby boomers achieved by having perfectly average careers.

Yes white able bodied middle class people are worse off. I agree with you.

Yes white able bodied middle class people are worse off. I agree with you.

This pretty much sums it up tbh.

And when the white, able bodied middle classes are upset, my god do they shout about it!

"Im comparing between buying a house 18 years ago and buying one now .

Were you? I thought you were agreeing with crunchymint that rents are higher then mortgages where you live and justifying this belief because someone’s 18 year old mortgage on a massive house is half the amount of the rent on your tiny flat. That’s how your post reads anyway."

Both. I think mortgage payments where I live are lower than rent even if a house is bought now. This is just what people have told me though, I haven't checked and not sure how I could really know what the mortgage would be on my flat, for example.

I was also making the point that people who bought 18 years ago had mortgages that weren't as many multiples of their income as someone trying to buy now.

"And when the white, able bodied middle classes are upset, my god do they shout about it!"

There's nothing to stop you starting a thread about non-white, disabled upper or working class people.
Some people don't count renters as middle class so according to the classification this isn't really a 'middle class' problem.

I’m pretty sure it’s reasonable to hope that ALL people can hope to do well...if you’re young and a minority group things many be better in someways but most certainly not for housing or future pensions.

Attitudes towards tenants in social housing have got worse and worse. The sector are even happy to waste money due to their happiness to tar all tenants with the same brush and assume every single one of them is up to no good. Its why we still have to have a gas safety check even though we are electric.

"Hang on - you're saying the older generation shouldn't be jealous that foreign holidays were an unaffordable luxury when they were young"

No, I'm saying it's normal to be jealous of that, but not to use that as an argument for why younger people can't buy a house.

malificent
You need to stop listening to your father. You know he’s an arsehole. All you’re doing right now is hurting yourself.

Your parents don’t seem to have ever lived in the real world. Or at least not for very long. My mother is similar and doesn’t believe there is a need for food banks etc.

The sad thing is even you don’t seem to recognise your parents had an above average lifestyle when you were a child. Your father simply cannot relate as he’s been affluent for too long. Foreign holidays were not the norm when I was growing up. I went. My friends didn’t. My friend used to get incredibly excited about her biannual trips to Blackpool to such an extent I thought she had better holidays than me. I know differently now obvs.

Honestly you’d feel so much better. The only person, who’s hurting by trying to fight against whet he thinks is you. Can you accept at a conscious level he doesn’t have the capacity to see otherwise? It is a massive failure, yes. But it’s his failure, not yours.

Two things would help the housing crisis - one to encourage elderly/empty nesters to sell up and buy cheaper (and more appropriate) houses or flats, leaving bigger eg 4 bed houses for families.

Two - restrict extensions. You have an affordable 2 bed house and then people add two bedrooms to it and make it unaffordable. Something needs to be done to protect the existing cheaper housing stock as well as building new cheaper houses. I've been flamed on here when I've suggested it before, but it's really unfair.

There are many more, like encouraging more remote working etc and improving broadband and transport links so you can work for a London business but live elsewhere. Houses are very cheap in certain parts of the country.

As for elderly care, it works to have them living with you when they can effectively look after themselves and just need housework doing, cooking meals etc. But not when they need personal care or nursing care.

I totally get what you’re saying OP. I would have loved to have had an 100 percent mortgage and plenty jobs to go around. My dad even admitted that back then he didn’t have to go through any of what you do today to get a job. It was a cv and a quick chat and not multiple tests and stages you get now.

He also fed a family of 5 on one wage when now you need both parents working unless one earns mega bucks.

it’s a tougher world now and my dad has said he would hate to be young now. Give him the swinging 70’s and carefree 80’s any day

Spot on iprefercoffeetotea - so many older people say there’s nothing they can do personally about the situation but if they would downsize out of the large family homes when they’re no longer needed (perhaps with a nice tax incentive from the government to help) then it would enable other families to enjoy living in a family sized home. We’ve only got young children now but we already expect to do this after they leave home to help them get started in life.

Iprefer
I agree to a degree with your first point. However, the buying and selling of the houses created by pensioners downsizing will potentially lead to price increases because these pensioners will be able to afford any price hikes.

As for the second point, it is far cheaper to extend then move. I do not agree with artificially maintaining properties in their 20th century form. Where will they end? We already have enough of a Nanny state. The most important thing is to build affordable housing. Due to the footprint of these properties and gardens, extending is limited.