To wonder why the older generation can't admit that things are harder for millennials?

[ExtraPineappleExtraHam]

So we just had our meeting with a mortgage advisor. They will lend my dp £45,000 (not even enough for a bedsit in this town) and so I'm not even bothering to do mine as I earn less. We work very hard (44 hours and 27 hours) we just have low paid jobs and pay childcare for two under 5's!
I talked to my stepdad who compared it to when he had to borrow £36,000 to buy his first house in the early eighties. That was 3 times his salary and his wife stayed at home. He paid it off in six years. It's not the same. He was given a mortgage which was enough to buy a nice house in an area close to family and where he worked. He didn't have to have a bank manager saying 'well if you move to Wales or up north?' He didn't have to rent forever and have nothing to pass down to his children. It's not the same!

Not this again...The 'older generation' had it harder it other ways, OP!

Have you ever looked at the conditions that many families had to live in well into the 60s before they were rehoused in tower blocks?

Rousette good, I'm glad your daughter is doing well. Nice to hear some 'millenials' are doing well on this thread.
Re the telly, I can remember when my (now ex) husband and I managed to buy our TV instead of renting, it was a 14" portable and cost £240, which was more or less a whole months of my wages. We probably bought it on a storecard, but it was always one thing at a time, pay it off then buy something else. Same thing with catalogues.

I think part of the problem for this generation is priorities. I got married young, as in Ireland in the 1980s living together was not done. We moved to England and lived in a shared house whilst we saved for our deposit. We didn’t start our family for 5 years until we could afford to meet our living costs on one salary. I was a sahm whilst the children were young. Our holidays were travelling back home to see family. It was not easy at the time but I have no regrets. The younger generation seem to do things backwards. Have kids, get married and then try to get on the housing ladder. It is much easier to save deposits before you have a family.

It doesn’t matter who had what though. If we’re talking housing it’s just not as affordable as it was and no amount of arguing about iPhones will change that.

I'm a millennial and I have it easier than my parents. Admittedly I might not be able to own a house in my 30s. But then I'm still finding my feet career wise - moving jobs soon and want to join the police eventually - so I might need to move around. Renting is good for that as I won't be tied to one place or area. I'll think about buying when I'm established in a career I want and have a husband/partner.

On a personal/anecdotal level. My life now is far more luxurious than my parents was at my age. They weren't poor as such growing up but not rich either - no foreign holidays, no eating out, only 1 doll or a pram at Xmas not both. And the education system! One where at 11 your future chances in life were decided. Where it they weren't 'clever' enough they went to a secondary modern, where not everyone took qualifications or were pushed to do so. Mam in particular has stayed in a low paid job because no one pushed her to do qualifications and she didn't have the self belief to try. Dad had meningitis twice as S baby because no vaccinations.

Compare that to my childhood/adulthood. Everyone sat exams, was urged and supported to do well, there was no option of simply not taking them. My childhood wasn't rich but nothing like parents - plenty of toys, food on the table, holidays etc. Medical care has improved so much that things like meningitis can be prevented by vaccine. The standard of living is much better now. I'm lucky enough to be educated and even though I'm currently in a low paid job I'm waiting to start a better paid jobs, and have plans for the future. Lots of my parents generation couldn't do that. Mam and dad bought the house due to thatchers right to buy scheme as dad puts it - great but when you look at the havoc she wreaked on the rest of the south wales valleys it's S poor consolation prize.

Overall, millenials lives are better than the older generations were. I don't think my future would look so bright if I'd been born back then. I certainly wouldn't have had the same advantages

'Millennial privilege' seems to be being demonstrated repeatedly at the moment on MN!

I was born in the seventies OP and I also have many friends who committed suicide.

Millennials don't have the monopoly on hard times.

You want helpful responses don't post something so poorly informed.

I don't things are harder for millenials than previous generations. It's just that the struggles/difficulties are different. I think you need to think more broadly as you are cherry picking housing.

Yes, housing is more expensive in comparison to incomes now than when those now in their 50/60's bought. But it's not that long since very few people owned their own homes and most rented. And other things- food, clothing, furniture are cheaper. Ditto holidays and travel. Most households in the UK have more disposable income than 30 years ago. Cars are more widely owned. Workers rights and benefits are considerably better (however imperfect) than when my parents were in their 20's. Women's rights have improved too.

I'd rather be starting my career now than when my mother was younger, frankly.

When my parents went for their 1st mortgage one bank manager refused to include my mother's income as she might get pregnant and stop work "at any time". There were few top up benefits for them, no matter how low your income- no tax credits etc. Only child benefit.

Overall, I think there are/were difficulties for each generation. Your struggles were perhaps not their struggles, but I actually don't think millenials/gen x have it harder than previous generations.

Catspaws

So, you mention something that has absolutely nothing to do with this topic, and then insinuate that that I am 'derailing' it??

Is that what 'white privilege' is then?

Seems to be a new thing that the 'kids' are jumping all over.

Yep, I get it. Just a fad.

Lashestans my thoughts also, he either had a big deposit or he has made a mistake.

OP, Why not do teacher training? English is a shortage subject now and I know there are various ways to train now rather than doing the traditional PGCE - some of which actually pay you. Salaries rise quite quickly and you would be have childcare issues during the holiday periods.

You say it’s harder for millennials to get on the housing ladder but my nephew and his fiancée (both in their 20s) have just bought a lovely 3 bed semi in a reasonable area. They both work hard and neither has any qualification higher than basic GCSEs. They’ve been sensible, saved and not rushed into having kids. They aren’t in the most expensive part of the country but neither are they in the cheapest. They made sacrifices in that they stayed in their own parents’ homes instead of moving in together in rental as they had the goal of owning a house.

They made sensible choices.

At my school, there was 39 in my class of which 2 went to University. It was very very different times and each generation has its challenges. I left school at 15 with barely an qualification to my name and made it in a career god knows how looking back

You get 3&1/2 for each salary usually and they add them both together for a mortgage. If it’s over £80k you could potentially get on the housing ladder in some areas. The issue you’re having is that wages haven’t risen in line with everything else.

I’m one of the oldest millennials and lots of millennials younger than I have houses, cars, careers, dc etc. We prioritised a house before marriage, dc etc. We bought a small terrace that needed gutting in a unfashionable area. We had a crap mortgage deal. That house we sold for less than we paid for it, even after spending £1000s on it doing it up. So to be fair, you would have got a bargain if you were a decade behind us and bought our house!

Of my parents generation, no one I know bought their home until they were in their 30s/40s. Everyone was struggling for work and redundancy due to industries collapsing was the norm. I think it’s easy to look back with rose tinted glasses, but those middle class men with a sahw, 2.4 dc and a 3 bed semi weren’t the only adults in the 70s/80s.

My parents bought their first home at the age of 38. It was marginally bigger than a rabbit hutch.

My mum had 2 part time jobs and my dad had to go to Germany to find work.

I'm not sure what millennials were taught at school but if you think being an adult (especially with children) during the 70s and 80s was easy then you must be seriously quite dim.

What does your £600 mortgage payment go on then?
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/legal_money_matters/2997387-do-my-finances-sound-about-right

We have lots of graduates/millennials in our team, and they do come across as "needing a lot of middle class comforts to get by". For example, needing to go on holiday constantly to far flung places, city breaks, posh meals, latest designer bags/clothes/phones.

When I was that age, I didn't have any of that, I was in similar jobs saving every penny, not travelling unless it was very cheap (think hostel/interrail) and not 5 star luxury hotel.

Even when they look for houses they want to buy large homes, we started off with a child in a one bedroom flat and we were blissfully happy. There is a major difference in expectations, in the middle class generations anyway.

Houses may cost a few bob more than they did in 1972, but when I were a lass my father would come home with a sack of coal fresh from the mines every night and we wouldn't be allowed to leave the table until it was all eaten. On Friday nights we'd get second helpings as a special treat.

I bought my first house in 1981 and it were just an 'ole in the ground, my DH and I build it up into a 4 bed detached one brick at a time. Don't see many millenials doing the same these days, they expect luxury from day one.

Eating out was a luxury ditto holidays abroad. I was born 1957 and didn't go abroad until I was 21. I am 60 now and will have to work until 66 to retire.

How old are you OP?

I have noticed that younger people tend to spend their money on things that the older generation didn't
I've been married 30 years
We didn't spend 1000s on our wedding, we didn't have a honeymoon and didn't have a holiday abroad until dh turned 50
We don't have 2 cars as I don't drive
We didn't have mobile phone contracts or endless electronic devices
We never ate out except for maybe a birthday celebration and we didn't get takeaways
We didn't subscribe to sky and Netflix didn't exist
We didn't go to the gym or have expensive hobbies that need expensive accessories
We didn't have a designer dog and send it to doggy daycare

Comparing what my dd buys at 21 I do think her priorities are different
She spends all her money on takeway food even though we have a full fridge and trainers and going out
people seem to have more stuff and to expect to have it

madein1995 totally agree with your post, the opportunities my DCs have had compared to me and DH is beyond comprehension. To my mind they are lucky.

My mum and dad both had siblings die in childhood. Both had a parent die in childhood. My mum’s dad was a miner. Both left school at 15 to work. My mum and dad had several kids (homebirth) in a slum. A one room slum with a shared loo for the whole building. My dad had to do national service. How exactly did they have it easier growing up?

Am I incorrect in thinking that prior to the 70s/80s, most people rented? I'm sure they did...

Many properties were owned by landowners and estates, and rented out, admittedly for a more 'reasonable' rent than nowadays, but home ownership didn't start to rise until the 60s/70s, I believe.

The difference is that people rented from landowners and estates, for a much more reasonable rent. But... they rented long term, or for life, and those agreements passed with the tenant to their survivors who were generally allowed to stay in the property, continuing to pay rent. And they were expected to maintain the interior and decorate how they wished without all the restrictions we have now. Rent was much cheaper and the houses were considered their home - I don't believe they had 'tenant checks' every 6 months but were left to run the home as they saw fit.

I could be wrong but I know that most people didn't own their own home.

Op I get where you're coming from. But you're being a bit unreasonable.

House prices fucking suck. It makes me so angry. When my parents were in their twenties, they were able to buy a gorgeous house in a nice bit of London on one salary. They had as many kids as they wanted. My mum didn't need to earn anything to maintain their life. I have absolutely no chance of that happening for me. Unless I won the lottery.

However, I remind myself that my mum was stuck in an abusive relationship. Both the practicalities and society attitudes made it hard for her to leave. Being a single mum back in those days would have been even harder than it is now (I'm not saying it's easy now!). Her own family encouraged her to stay as the attitude was domestic violence was just a fact of life. Practicalities such as shops closing at 5 routinely made managing a job and a family as a single parent more difficult. It might sound trivial, but these little things that are different now do make a difference.

I'd choose my own life over my mum's in a heart best.

However I think you're being a bit unreasonable as you've chosen to have 2 kids close together. I've got one 3 year old. I wanted to stay living in my home town of London. So we left trying for a baby until my late 30s. I'd love so much to have another. We think we might be in a financial position to have one in a couple of years. I'm now 40, so there's a real chance I won't be able to conceive. I'll be paying off my mortgage until I'm 70, but mum was mortgage free in her 50s.

So yes, it sucks that you have to make these compromises that my parents generation didn't have to. But opportunities for women have come on so much in the last few decades and for that we should we grateful.

OP - why did you have 2 kids before sorting out your jobs and buying a property?